www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Born Post-Vatican II ?

Slava Isusu Christu!

As far as the comment about gays usurping traditional worship et al. Most gay people that I have encountered, I being a non-practicing one for that matter, love traditional reverent worship and theology. So I think it is rather dingy old straight people from the 60's who like Wreckovision liturgies. All we have to do is wait for the hippies to die and we all will be happy

As far as your comment about Dignity and what they do - who cares. They are passe' and definately not where the Church is going. Again most gay people have taste and are usually the one's complaining about all the crap going on with the Liturgy.

Anyway, I've got to go back to biting on my Hungarian Anger Management Stick (HAMS).

In the Theotokos,


Robert Horvath

Many of them are at the Latin Churches participating in the Novus Ordo Mass. My brother and sister left the Byzantine Church even though a Byzantine parish is nearby. Most of my cradle Greek Catholic cousins left too, and most of them live a neighborhood or two away from the nearest Byzantine parish. They all attend the local Latin Catholic Novus Ordo Mass parishes nearby. Latinizations convinced many of them that there is no reason to be devoted to a Byzantine Church when Latin Churches are in the same vicinity. None of their reasons for leaving were economic-based. A majority left back in the late 80s. That 50% decline began at a rapid pace near the end of the 50s, a "pre-Vatican II" point of time.

Sounds like a familiar story to many, Joe. And the RC parishes usually have a much more vibrant and active parish community, especially with regard to catechetics, youth ministry, etc. Your story has played out in numerous Ruthenian/ Ukrainian parishes.

Diak,

Yes.

One of my wife's coworkers is a Baptist and asked to read a parish bulletin that was sticking out of her work bag this past Friday. She couldn't help but notice a beautiful icon on it. She made a copy of the backside, which had some good teaching on it about forgiveness. She was interested in how we preach Christ.

This particular bulletin had the church's annual report in it and she was shocked how little the pastor got paid. She told my wife how their ministers, deacons, teachers and music ministers get paid and are able to dedicate a full-time career in church ministry and evangelization. She considered our Catholic parishioners to be "cheap" and that it was no wonder why nobody would want to become a pastor.

My wife explained how at one time we did have married priests and all and a full-time cantorship (they both are into church music and singing), but it was all eventually chucked. She gave a brief history about our experience with the Latin Church. Her friend thought our church was "such the lemming" for caving in.

My wife's coworker also couldn't understand why services were so short - being that her church services are no less than three to four hours any given Sunday morning, especially for Southern Baptists with all their long sermons. Her question to my wife was interesting: "Do you guys actually take yourselves and your church or God seriously?"

She asked if we actually evangelize.

Her Baptist church group was in full force doing all sorts of activities with excellent youth group coordinators. She asked why our priests had to 'mandate' youth activity.

In all of this, how should we answer? This left us both somewhat depressed.

Posting by Robert Horvath:

"As far as the comment about gays usurping traditional worship et al. Most gay people that I have encountered, I being a non-practicing one for that matter, love traditional reverent worship and theology. So I think it is rather dingy old straight people from the 60's who like Wreckovision liturgies. All we have to do is wait for the hippies to die and we all will be happy

"As far as your comment about Dignity and what they do - who cares. They are passe' and definately not where the Church is going. Again most gay people have taste and are usually the one's complaining about all the crap going on with the Liturgy.

"Anyway, I've got to go back to biting on my Hungarian Anger Management Stick (HAMS).

In the Theotokos,


Robert Horvath"

*****


Dear Robert,

I am posting to ask you a couple of questions.

How is the Love of Christ for His "dingy old straight people from the sixties" reflected in your words?

Is wreckovision an appropriate way to speak about any Liturgy?

Robert, I hope that you can find it in your heart to pray for us "leftover Latins" from the previous century, who share the Church with you, that God grant us many years, too. I am surprised by the cavalier way that you anticipate our deaths and suggest that our deaths will somehow make all happy.

I will pray that He grant us all the wisdom to see everyone in the Churches and outside of them as His children.

I pray, too, that the Spirit grant us the strength to speak to and to speak about each other in the Spirit of Love.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Steve

Again my reference was to people who favor dismantled/wrecked liturgies over the glory of tradition; And I don't want all the hippies to literally die and fall off the earth, ok.

And I love all Latin Catholics who share the Church with me regardless of age; and I love "straight" people too. I never really talk about sexuality here, but hey every once and a while is ok I guess

God Bless.

We've talked before about "what happened", on a thread of that name. The numbers for the BCC are: 299k 1949; 279k 1976; 262k 1990; 143k 1999; 114k 2001. There was a slow, relatively minor decline in numbers between 1949 and 1990. The rapid decline is of the past decade or so. As I've pointed out before the trend is similar in ACROD (and in the UGC in the US and in Canada).