www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Articles on prayers being taken silently or aloud

http://www.jacwell.org/Supplements/reasons_and_dates.htm

http://www.jacwell.org/Summer_2000/our_story.htm

Dear Father Deacon,

What books would you recommend to liturgical peasants such as myself on liturgical theology?

Alex

I would recommend the works of Protopresbyter Alexander Schmemann and Archimandrite Robert Taft. If you can read French Frs. Mateos and Arranz are very extensive.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Dear Father Deacon,

I do read French (we're supposed to be bilingual up here) - thank you!

How's the little one doing?

Alex

Well at least one Orthodox bishop has mandated the Anaphora be taken aloud.


FEAST OF THE ALL-HOLY LIFE-CREATING AND UNDIVIDED TRINITY.+
A.D. 1988
To the dearly beloved and very reverend clergy of the cathedrals of the Diocese of the West:


Holy Trinity Cathedral, San Francisco, California
St. Spiridon Cathedral, Seattle, Washington
Holy Virgin Mary (Rescuer of the Perishing) Cathedral, Los Angeles, California
Holy Transfiguration Cathedral, Denver, Colorado


LITURGICAL ORDER #1
(Preliminary)

I. Introduction
In the first days of my episcopate, I indicated my intention of providing a liturgical order for our diocesan cathedrals. Such is in progress, but it is a larger undertaking than I had foreseen. Meanwhile, there are a few directions, which will, of cours e, be found in the projected order, but which can be effected now. These directions are:

...

VI. These prayers are to be read aloud:
All prayers at the bowing of heads at Liturgy and the Office, and all these prayers at the Anaphora: It is meet and right to hymn Thee; With these blessed power, O Master; Remembering this saving commandment; Again we offer unto Thee; For the holy Prophet; and Remember, O Lord, the city.

...

+TIKHON

Thank you, Fr. Deacon Lance.

Joe

Father Deacon Lance,

Thanks for the information. It seems to be at variance with the liturgical instruction His Grace, Bishop Tikhon, has posted on his official website (see the document linked below starting with page 32). Although the instruction affects only the OCA Diocese of the West and includes a few of His Grace�s personal preferences (which he has every right to), the whole document is a wonderful read and very educational. A bishop has every right to declare how the Holy Services will be celebrated in his eparchy. Note that the document is a liturgical instruction. It is not a revised liturgicon (as has been proposed in the Ruthenian Church in America).

The Divine Liturgy (with notes for serving)
http://www.ocadow.org/texts/Liturgy_notes.pdf

Admin

Admin,

You will note that the instruction I posted is for the four cathedrals (only?). Also in the Notes for Serving Liturgy the only variance I see is it declares the prayer "It is meet and right to hymn thee" is to be taken silently. It appears the Notes are more recent but both documents appear on Bishop Tikhon's letters and instructions site.

http://www.ocadow.org/letters.htm

Deacon Lance

Dear Esteemed Mentors of the East,

Is all this a "tempest in an onion dome" or am I alone in wondering what all this fuss is about?

Ultimately, what difference does it make?

Alex

Alex,

I think it is very important theologically and spiritually that the people hear the prayer of the Anaphora. To deprive the people of hearing this prayer is, in my opinion, wrong and is the equivalent of the priest/deacon reading the Gospel silently to himself. To mandate that it be taken aloud is a correction of an abuse, no matter how long standing or widely practiced.

Fr. Deacon Lance

So, what your are saying is that bishops don't have the right to revise liturgicons. What if those liturgical instructions include a revised liturgicon in order to happen? Will you work against your bishop (Bishop Andrew Pitaki) if he is involved in promulgating liturgical instructions and/or revising the liturgicon?

Joe

Father Deacon Lance,

Thank you for your post. Yes, there appears to be an inconsistency on this issue in the OCA Diocese of the West. My point, however, remains perfectly valid. His Grace has not published a revised liturgicon. The standard Byzantine Liturgy (Russian Recension) remains the norm for the Diocese of the West. His Grace has issued a liturgical instruction. He has not revised the property of the whole by publishing a revised liturgicon.

With respect, I submit that your post to Alex examples the Latin mentality of those who wish to mandate a revised Liturgy. It is a very Latin thing to say that, at the Divine Liturgy, in order to participate the people must hear every word before they can assent. [As I noted earlier, the logical extension of this is that they also must see and that we must remove the icon screens and have the priest fact the people.] For Byzantines, the role of the people is one of offering.

If I might, I would like to again summarize my position regarding the need to respect the freedom that the Byzantine Liturgical tradition offers on this issue.

1) The whole idea of mandating change, rather then allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the Church and then document the developments after a century of acceptance and use, is not Byzantine.

2) The current freedom that priests (Catholic and Orthodox) have within our Byzantine Liturgical tradition has served the Church well. The custom of praying the Anaphora quietly has been the near universal practice for most of the life of the Church. To dismiss the custom as merely an abuse does not give the issue the serious consideration it deserves. Those who support revisions have simply not made a case for these revisions, let alone a compelling one. [This is not to say that I do not respect them or their opinions. But what has been put forward does not rise beyond the level of personal preference.] If the change you advocate is of the Holy Spirit then it will occur naturally across the Church and not just in the Ruthenian Church. If and when it becomes the normative custom then it will be appropriate to include it in the liturgical books.

3) The history of liturgical development in the Byzantine Church has always been one of adding things. It is wrong from one tiny Church within the larger liturgical tradition to automatically conclude that the Holy Spirit had no part in these particular developments and to prune the liturgy to its own liking. If the Spirit is prompting a change in this regard He will prompt the entire Church and we should wait and act as a whole.

4) If a Church desires to review the liturgical tradition in order to make pastoral provisions it is imperative that that Church first be fully formed in the liturgical tradition. We Ruthenians cannot pretend that our Church has been fully formed by the Byzantine Liturgy when the full parochial liturgical cycle of worship is celebrated in less than a dozen of our parishes. I am only an uneducated layman but I do see and observe. If one only uses the example of the restoration of the deaconate and how it is positively impacting the liturgical lives of our parishes I cannot see how anyone can advocate any mandated change prior to fully recovery and living this recovery for a few generations. In this regard, we begin � as a Church � to see a glimpse of what we have lost and must recover.

Further, it is also imperative that we first restore monasticism within our Church. Monastics pray the liturgy in a much fuller form than is possible at the parish level. We must allow for this recovery so that we can have a generation or two of monastics who are formed within the fullness of our liturgical tradition so that they can speak to these issues. Until such a time it seems best that we defer to the greater experience of the Byzantine Church, which is not currently advocating such mandated revisions.

There is so much more I wish to say on this issue. I hate short lunchtimes!

Admin

Do you realize how silly you look when you attempt to stifle a serious discussion by accusing those who hold differing opinions than your own of working against their bishop(s)?

Would it not be better to present a well reasoned, compelling presentation of your position in order to convince people to adopt your position?

Dear Administrator,

Actually, I fail to see how Father Deacon Lance evinced a "Latin mentality" at all here!

Aren't you trying to do to Father Deacon what you are accusing Cantor Joseph of doing in your next post?

I mean, stifle the discussion with the use of an accusation?

I'm just wondering out loud about the use of "hey, you think like a freaking Latin!" in discussions among Eastern Catholics.

If the Orthodox did that (the "real Orthodox"), then perhaps St Seraphim of Sarov might not be canonized a saint because he prayed on his knees, said the rosary and venerated a Western-style icon . . .

Why can't we discuss things on their merits without resorting to what you say Cantor Joseph did above?

And wasn't what Cantor Joseph said a valid point?

If you don't agree, I'll understand . . .

As for your lunch, I hope I'm not on your menu for dessert . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,

Thank you for your post. I am rather surprised that you see no difference between Mr. Thur�s post and my own.

Mr. Thur made an implication that I was working against my bishop and offered no evidence to support his accusation.

My post to Father Deacon Lance, conversely, specifically explained why I believe his position to be a product of a Latin mentality. The existence of a Latin mindset is not something new in our Church and it is a constant topic within all branches of the Byzantine Church, especially those local Churches in Western society. Surely it is acceptable to actually discuss what individual participants consider to be examples of latinizations? Or is all such discussion to be stifled by accusations of name-calling?

Regarding my specific comments, do you disagree that the general idea of seeing, hearing and examining before assenting comes to us primarily from the Latins and less so from the Byzantines?

I provided a summary of an issue I have developed in previous discussions. Mr. Thur has not. I submit that there is a huge difference.

Admin