www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Filioque reintroduce by Metropolia again

Friends,

On Good Friday/Annunciation, we used the booklets published by the Metropolia. We discovered to our horror that the Filioque clause was reintroduced. Yes, I know it was only in brackets, but what do we make of this? Is the Filioque optional? Is it taught in our ECF classes? What about those eparchies that have already dropped it years ago? Even the children were wondering what it was all about. Enlightened folks questioned who the sewers of confusion were? Do we say what we mean or mean what we say or don't really mean what we say or say what we don't really mean?

What gives?

We simply ignored it.

Joe,
totally confused by our church leaders - once again

I believe it was simply use of old material and rush to put the booklet together. If you noticed the Litany of Peace was the new translation but the Insistent Litany was the old.

Fr. Deacon Lance

But overlooking the Filioque? Those must have been really old materials they were using. They probably didn't catch it when it was scanned (or typed) into the booklet, right? I've seen newer material without it though.

Joe

OK OK guys - off topic here - but you have got me throughly puzzled and I can't get the answer here [ believe me I've spent the last 30 mins trying ] just what is the Insistent Litany ?

Anhelyna - who just HAS to know

Anhelyna

The Insistent Litany is the one in the Divine Liturgy that comes after the Gospel/Homily. It is called insistent because the people respond with the triple "Lord have mercy" rather than just a single.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Father Deacon Lance,

Christ is Risen!

And since all that insisting is going on, that's not a bad time to take up the collection!



Deacon El

Even though it was an "official" book, that book was an official disaster. I hope I won't be reported if I comment that there was great disappointment with it. I have heard so many complaints from people in many different parishes, and I have heard that some priests who used it, apologized publicly from the pulpit, saying they were forced to use it, and asking the understanding of the people, promising them that it would never be used again.

I am curious about the nature of the complaints:
ordo, text, chant setting,.... What specifically was complained about?

The priest/cantor edition was a complete louse. It read more like a thesis than a liturgical book. Three pages of deacon-priest dialogue ... Our parish basically set the book down for the liturgy part and used Vernoski's red 'pew' book, which was easier to follow. Cantors needed something to go on.

The musical notation of the Good Friday/Annunciation book was fine though. Well done. The people did follow along with no problem and the liturgy flowed smoothly because of it. But the 'text' part resembled a thesis cut up in a blender. Music notation and text was night and day. And somehow the Filioque got back in there despite word check, updated texts, etc. Someone was being catered to, not necessarily Byzantine Catholics. A gross oversight after what was all said and done regarding this clause since Vatican II and the late Pope John Paul II and countless Orthodox-Catholic dialogues.

Joe

We did not have any problems in using the book for Good Friday/Annunciation. No one, not the cantors or the priest or the congregation (or even the deacon ), complained. I fail to see why anyone would call the official books an "official disaster".

Mercifully, I have not yet had the dubious pleasure of seeing these books distributed for the combination of Good Friday and Annunciation. But assuming - which no one has challenged - that the report that the book includes the Filioque in the Creed, that alone is quite sufficient to substantiate the charge that the book is an "official disaster".

Incognitus

The Good Friday/Annunciation book was published in two forms-one for the priest and one for the congregation. The booklet designated for used by the faithful did not contain any material for the Divine Liturgy save for the changeable parts. It was my understanding that the priest's edition contained the 1966 translation, and was for the priest/clergy only (for his convenience for not having to use three or four different books, i imagine). So, i wonder if the real disaster was really the book, or simply a wrong version was given to everyone else.

In Christ,
Adam

I agree with Deacon John. We used the official books at the Church of the Resurrection in Monroeville for the Vespers and Liturgy on Good Friday. It was a beautiful service and I have never heard the cantors and people sing so beautifully. Father Raptosh said it was the best service he has ever celebrated.

Are you talking about that Divine Liturgy with vespers they did on Good Friday? It was really bad. All the words for Good Friday were different. My husband stands with the cantor and he said the priest told him not to worry about the music and to sing it anyway he could manage so they sang it like they sang the �bless the lord� so at least the people could join in. The liturgy part was ok because it was a regular liturgy except for certain parts. Saturday night was worst. My husband said the liturgy with vespers and matins took over three hours and that almost half the people left after communion. I tried taking the kids last year but we had to leave early so this year we only went to the Divine Liturgy on Easter morning.

Oh. I don�t think we took the �and the Son� in the creed.