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Lance,

You are so correct. Studies were done on the success rate of Jehovah Witnesses going door to door. The actual conversion rate was dismal. The attrition rate after conversion was no better.

The best method seems to be by word of mouth, by invitation. Cold calling is one thing; trusting a friend on spiritual matters is another. Those who were introduced to the Byzantine Church were given a head's up on what Eastern Christianity was first BEFORE walking into the temple and getting hit with something that can look so foreign. They knew ahead of time what to expect, like a 'preview' before seeing the movie.

Joe

Johan,

Thank you. I did get six leads this past week that I am working on. Might also start preparing soon for taking the GMAT again for doctoral studies.

God bless,
Joe Thur

Dan,

Good point. In all this talk about working closely with the Orthodox, I hearreferences made to cost reports for parish operations coming from Protestant jurisdictions! Excuse me, but many of those jurisdictions also pay for salaries of music ministers and other support personnel. Do we ever compare apples to apples?

The only FEAR that is out there is FEAR of Rome. Other Eastern Catholic jurisdictions in the USA are already ordaining married men to the presbyterate without asking permission from Rome first. Wouldn't the ordination of a married man in one of our cathedrals here in the USA be a wonderful episode of the Fear Factor show? Probably just as radical as watching a person being covered with cockroaches or spiders.

Joe

I think this loss of souls isn't just a problem for Eastern Catholic Churches. Roman Catholics are also witnessing a decline, especially among the 22-35 yr. age. How many times have I met young
adult Roman Catholics who say "I was raised Catholic, but I don't attend regularly anymore because... (fill in the excuse here)". Roman Catholic are experiencing losses, they're just not as dramatic because the have bigger congregations.

What can we attribute these attitudes among the younger generations? Well, in the world toady religion is being taken out of society and replaced with modern-day, political-correct, materialistic humanism. We aren't allowing a place for God in our public lives and educational school systems so today's youth are growing up without any good Christian role models. Abortion, same-sex marriages, divorce, etc., are being pushed down society's throat replacing Christian ethics and morality. What our youth are exposed to during their formative years is dreadful. We are in need of a strong family unit, not single parent households. A strong church community has to start at home., "The family that prays together stays together"! If good Christian ethics and morality aren't being taught at home, we will continue to loose our young adults.

I also think that we Eastern Catholics are having a tougher time in keeping our youth because we are smaller and are still suffering from an identity crisis. We need to put more effort in our ECF programs and must stress our that Particular Church tradition is not just an old world anomaly but a centuries-old, time-tested apostolic tradition. We need to teach our youth to be proud of their Eastern Christian patrimony. Once we thoroughly evangelize our younger generation, then we can go about evangelizing people outside our church community.

Ung-Certez

There have been a lot of great comments here.

One question, do the numbers reflect parish total membership or do they reflect only parish members who are certifiably Byzantine?

Some parishes have a significant number of individuals who may actually be Romans or Catechumans/Candidates and not actually Byzantine, but nevertheless have their envelopes...

Michael

Dear All,
I can only speak for myself in this. So here it goes, I grew up in the BCC and all my formation was Eastern so I think that I was lucky for that. But now that I have children of my own I teach their formation at home and they have ECF on Sundays. This is a problem because the Teachers at ECF are teaching Western Theology and I am Teaching Eastern. I could site several examples but that would be a waste of time. I dont blame them because there is not enough Byzantines to go around and teach. I know that there are books but you have tobe willing to follow them and they are not.We average about 70 people on the weekends and out of them there is only about 10-12 Byzantines.The rest are Latin,this is still a good thing because we want these people.Now we always see posters say that the average Latin does not have the understanding of the East. I always run into people in my parish that will tell me that I am wrong in what I teach my kids and I will show them all the teachings and they still will say that I am speaking Heretical. Ive even been told that I should conform to them or move to the Orthodox. I take it with a grain of salt.I have even brought this up to my Priest yet he will say that he has no knowlege of these matters or will say that I should just be patient.(he is a Latin transplant)Now that I am moving out of state to an area that is free of BC churches. Yet their is several Orthodox and Roman parishes to pick from.I know that several people will tell me that I should stay in the fold of the Catholic faith but as I see it it is not my faith. It is the faith of the Latins that they want me to stay with.So that is it in a nutshell and that is the reason that I will likely become Orthodox.

Poor Sinner Chad

Lance,

Despite what some studies say. Despite my fear of being rejected as some form of Eastern version of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I still go door to door. Evangelism conferences are alright but make sure those who are conducting them are actually doing evangelism and not just recircultating old fears and prejudices.

I enjoy meeting new people. No one has ever shut their door in my face.

When it comes right down to it, it doesn't matter so much what you do as it does that you do something. FDR gave the best advice in this are "Do something".

Dan Lauffer

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Chad,
I am glad you brought this up. It IS a major problem with the BCC. I am Latin rite myself for the moment, but my attraction was through the theology before I ever attended a liturgy.

I have received comments in the past about the "book learning" approach to the faith. But that's where I'm coming from, I have had to do my own ECF and I am still a long way from knowing what I need to know to be a good Byzantine Catholic, but at least I am aware of it.

To be frank, if I had not found a good BCC parish that is struggling to restore the traditions I would probably be Orthodox today myself.

It's clear to me that if Roman Catholics simply pay a visit and stay merely because they like the liturgy, they might not make good Byzantines. People who do not know the theology should be prevented from teaching ECF, no matter how sincere they appear to be! You are having Latin theology foisted upon your family the same way it is sometimes attempted here on the forum. As much as it is not acceptable here it is a high crime at the parish. These people are poorly catechised and I don't blame you for being frustrated.

Now if we individuals who are willing to evangelize for this precious jewel of a church stress only the liturgical beauty and not the theological beauty there will be new members with a very superficial knowledge of the faith, the parish could become infested with them.

Chad, I am truly sorry you have been going through this and I hope that you find a way to resolve this situation without leaving the Catholic communion, but in any case, I wish for you the best.

Michael, that sinner

Michael,

Fear again is at the heart of why we don't start new congregations, at least not very many. Fear saps our ability to hear and heed the Spirit. There are places where we could probably travel several hundred miles without encountering a BC Church.

I want to check my sanity with you. I have the impression that if unleashed our congregation by itself with some financial backing could help establish several new congregations. Look at the number of Deacons in waiting. Some of these are priests in waiting but if the Church would ever have the courage to ordain married people. Look at our very active youth and young adults. I believe we have a number of foot soldiers as well. This is the most exciting congregation of which I've ever been a member.

So, I think your following comment may not be true, at least for many in our church.

"But you know, our people in the pews don't really give a damn as long as they still have a priest. When the priest is gone they will care a lot about it but it will be too late."

I think we have a priest who is giving and will continue to give us direction to do ever greater things in the Kingdom. I also think that our example will bear fruit in the Eparchy. I'm praying that it will.

I do believe that liturgical renewal goes hand in hand with evangelism. I don't believe people who are being called to do great things for God are going to be attracted to a congregation that is afraid to reclaim its own heritage.

I'm with you. If I had not found Annunciation, my wife and I would be Orthodox today.

Dan Lauffer

PS I've got an adaptation of the a Reaganism that applies to us. He said to Mr. Gorbachav, "Tear down that wall." It wasn't long before it was torn down. Here's the adaptation, "Tear out those pews." I hope this as effective as Reagan's. You should read the complimentary comments my University of St. Francis students give about our courage to eliminate many of the pews.

Lance,

Your comments on warm vs. cold calls has much merit. It is always better to get acquianted with someone, even better, befriend them before you begin sharing ones faith. My cold calls are usually limited to introductory comments and an invitation to come see our church. I.e., I appeal on a curiosity level more than anything else. If a person comes or they wish to talk further that's when one can talk more seriously about the faith.

Another thing I do regularly is have my Theology classes take a field trip to my Church. It is simply a way of following Orientale Luman. Moreover, I don't believe theology can be adequately studied outside worship. Sort of like studying computer science without a computer. It's possible but not particularly fruitful.

Dan Lauffer

I was surprised to discover that one of the speakers at the OCA evangelism conference is the priest of the parish just down the block from my home. If everyone at that conference had his missionary zeal, then it must have truly been an event worth attending! In five years he has taken a few families meeting in a Catholic fellowship hall, grew and moved into a warehouse, grew again and moved into a rented storefront, grew still more and recently purchased a church building of their own. I received their monthly newsletter this afternoon. They currently have thirteen catechumens and numerous inquirers.

Fr. Stephen is living proof that the "gloom and doom" postings that somehow Eastern Christendom just can't thrive in today's American culture. All that is needed is the right messenger to deliver the message.

-- Ed

PS I was considering speaking to your "recirculating old fears and prejudices" comment, when I realized I didn't fully understand what you were trying to say. Perhaps you could elaborate?

I think the Fear Factor theory is a good one, Dan. Fear of change is a big one- fear of 'outsiders' invading our little worlds is another. Leadership's fear of married people- i.e MEN-With-WIVES-Who-Have-Opinions runs deeper than fear of Rome, IMHO.

I'm sure there might be some bad marriages, wayward children of priests, etc. They've had them in the past and survived. These problems in my opinion are much easier for lay people to understand than finding their pastor's face,name or website plastered all over the internet. In other words, some so-called 'scandals' are part of normal human nature. What we see today is MUCH more destructive to our Church, yet outwardly accepted and NOT feared by our leadership.

As for the door to door method-it seems a better gamble than waiting for people to show up on our closed doors. Another thing that might work is high community visibility- community activities for men, women, kids, after school programs in our empty buildings, etc.- meeting the needs in your community for socialization and not just church fundraising. We need to spend money to make money!

This leads us to another 'fear'. Do we believe that gospel message about the talents? Throw your bread upon the water, maybe? Tightening up the budget for the perceived disaster ahead is a death sentence for sure.

More thoughts from Sam...

Ed,

I think you pretty much got it. Fear of being "unusual"; fear of married priests; fear that we won't be liked if we evangelize; and of course, fear of Roman fickleness.

Fr. Stephen sounds like our priest and like my kind of priest. Good report!! God desires His kingdom to Grow not shrivel up in fear. There is no reason that most of our congregations can't show similar results. It does take people with passion and compassion. God does the work, but we must have the right attitude and move with the Spirit.

Dan Lauffer

Sam,

Great thinking. Maybe Father Michael will bravely step forward and grow a beard. Just kidding.

These open community gatherings are a great idea. Instead of being timid because we are different allow God to work through our differences to bring people to His Kingdom. One thing that is really uninspiring about the cookie cutter Protestant Churches, and more and more RC Churches are looking the same, is that they are so predictable and boring.

Let's have the best iconostasis. Remove most of the pews. Have lovely well done icons. Do the best we can with the sung liturgy. Then invite and welcome. They will come.

"As for the door to door method-it seems a better gamble than waiting for people to show up on our closed doors. Another thing that might work is high community visibility- community activities for men, women, kids, after school programs in our empty buildings, etc.- meeting the needs in your community for socialization and not just church fundraising. We need to spend money to make money!

This leads us to another 'fear'. Do we believe that gospel message about the talents? Throw your bread upon the water, maybe? Tightening up the budget for the perceived disaster ahead is a death sentence for sure."

We do indeed need to spend money to make it. And we don't need any more gambling. Let's challenge our people to ...gasp...tithe. We've been doing it for years.

Let the little groups do bingo or things like it as they wish, but let's stop relying on things like this to fund the ministry of the Church.

Dan Lauffer

BTW Now that the flood gates have opened I have many more ideas. I may save them for another thread.

Amen Fr.Dan!

In with the married priests and families-up with the numbers already, LOL! There's a wife, a couple of kids, in-laws, cousins, kids friends, their families. Hmm. For every one man there could be two dozen more, WITH envelopes!

You are right about the cookie cutter churches. We do have a unique flavor, beautiful Tradition/traditions and spirituality - not to be hidden!

I disagree with the gambling as well. Who really gambles anyway? Not too many young Christian families that I know of. Shades of an earlier era- pre-Elvis!

I say storm the Chancery offices with Lay people and their fresh ideas, LOL! Lets get the balls rolling!