www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Marriage b/w OC and RC

Now, I find all of this fascinating. If we are going to be very technical and strict about this, then it seems that unless an "economia" is granted to one of the spouses, then one of them will be doing something damnable according to their church. The Catholic spouse must promise to raise the children in his faith. The Orthodox spouse must promise to raise the children in her faith. Suppose, there are no exceptions to this: then why would the church even permit intermarriage?

Several months ago, when I mentioned in confession that I was considering becoming Orthodox (I went to a Roman priest at the time) I was told to be very careful, because the fate of my immortal soul rested on the decision.

In light of all of this and the closeness of the two faiths, Roman Catholic and Orthodox, it seems to me that if the Churches are going to allow intermarriage, then they should permit the couples to choose which Church they will raise their kids in, according to what is best in their circumstances. I like the way that this is done in the middle east. In Christ,

Joe

The requirement is predicated on the general rule that prohibits a mixed marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic.

However, the exception is the norm: a dispensation from the above rule when sought by the Catholic party is almost always granted by the local ordinary but who would:

(1) require the Catholic party to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power in order that all the children be baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;

(2) inform in good time the other (non-Catholic) party of these promises to be made by the Catholic party, so that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and of the obligation of the Catholic party; and

(3) instruct both parties about the purposes and essential properties of marriage (as viewed by the Catholic Church), which are not to be excluded by either contractant.

(Cf. Canons 1124 thru 1129, 1983 Code of Canons.)

Amado

Amado,

The part where #1 says, "make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power in order that all the children be baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;" seems to make this exception "almost always" given by the local ordinary when petitioned, moot anyway, since that basically amounts to a promise to raise the kids Catholic.

Similarly, annulments are almost always granted by today's wayward episcopate...

Logos Teen

Yeppers.

Each side allows a mixed marriage if the non-member spouse agrees to be in bad standing in his or her church by allowing the kids to be outside that church.

As hurtful and unfair as that sounds it makes sense considering each side's one-true-church teaching.

The non-Catholic parent is not, repeat, not, required to promise to raise the child or children as Catholics. Among other things, this means that if the Catholic parent dies, leaving very young children, the surviving spouse has not the slightest Church-imposed obligation to raise those children as Catholics (what the deceased spouse may have asked the surviving spouse directly is not at issue here).

The Catholic parent is normally - but not invariably - required to promise to raise the child or children as Catholics. Under some circumstances, the Catholic hierarchy is willing to give some dispensations. "Princess Michael of Kent" is a recent prominent example. Others could easily be cited.

Fr. Serge

I think that's already been said.
That means the non-RC or non-Eastern Catholic has to stand back and let the RC (etc.) take over the religious upbringing of the kids, no different really from making them promise to raise them under Rome.

I would like to see a little more respect afforded to our clergy on this board. We are fortunate that they take the time to give us their expert advice, opinions, and knowledge. We are also fortunate that they take the time to respond to us and to share their lifetimes of experience serving in the Church, East and/or West.

Addressing clergy in the proper form would be a nice beginning...not only would it be polite, but it is also an Eastern ecclesial tradition.

Thank you.

Alice, Moderator

How sad. I hope the prospective spouse to be in this thread isn't met with such prejudice.

Andrew

I understand the logic and perhaps, both Churches have no other choice, at least as long as they consider themselves to be exclusively, the true Church. One wonders why the dispensation to marry a non-(fill in the blank here; Orthodox or Catholic) is given in the first place. I believe that this is a relatively modern practice. In Christ,

Joe

I don't know if this belongs on a new thread, if so, let me know and I will start it; but I've often wondered why the Roman Catholic Church permits Catholics to marry non-Christians, especially in light of St. Paul's injunction to widows that they are free to marry, "but marry in the Lord." It is my understanding that the Orthodox Churches absolutely forbid marriage to an unbaptized person. Am I correct in this?

Joe

Because not every non-blank is devout so he or she has no problem raising the children in the spouse's church.

Dear Joe,You are correct,the Orthodox Church will(except in the case of zealous OLd Calendarist groups) permit marriage between an Orthodox and non-Orthodox CHRISTIAN,i.e.,someone who has been baptised in the Name of the Holy Trinity.RC's,Lutherans, and most Protestants would qualify,Mormons,Quakers, and Jehovah's Witnesses would not.

Father Al,

Thank you, that is what I thought. It seems to be more biblical and in line with the Tradition to me than the practice of permitting Catholics to marry non-Christians.

Still, I must say that it saddens me that the two Churches closest to one another (Catholic and Orthodox) cannot work out a solution that leaves both partners of the Catholic-Orthodox marriage in good standing with their Churches; unless of course, they never had children (because it was impossible). Then there would be no problem. In Christ,

Joe

My thanks to Alice for her timely and appropriate comment.

It is always theoretically possible to turn the Gospel into the Bad News. I am aware from empirical observation that there are people who actively want to do this (I can find that in certain parishioners), but I must admit that this attitude seriously puzzles me. It is difficult to avoid thinking of the words of Our Savior about those who impose heavy burdens but offer no help to remove them.

Consider the cases which have been raised: we have moved from a request for helpful advice to a young couple, one Orthodox, the other Catholic, who wish to get married - to a discussion of the hypothetical marriage of a Christian to a non-Christian. Excuse me, but the cases are radically dis-similar. It is possible, granted, to find both Catholics and Orthodox who consider the "other" the equivalent of unbaptized heathens, but that opinion is certainly not typical of either the Catholics or the Orthodox.

If someone genuinely wants to find Catholic or Orthodox clergy who take such a fanatical, extremist position, I could - but won't - direct you to them. I won't, because in my serious opinion that would be to encourage people in a major offense against God, who did not become Man to tell us to hate one another (and I have already heard the argument that calling each other unbaptized heathens is actually an expression of love, so don't bother to repeat it).

For people who want pastoral help, I do my inadequate best. For people who want a deeper understanding of the Church and her teaching, I also do my inadequate best, with the caveat that the Church is ultimately a Mystery and the more we learn, the more we realize how slender our knowledge is.

But for people who are looking for someone to apply the Church to them as a religious whip, please look elsewhere.

Fr. Serge

I thank you Father Serge for your post and for all your pastoral input.

With this excellent post, I will close the thread...as Father has pointed out, it has gone beyond its original topic and intention.

Alice, Moderator