www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The filioque

Dear John,

Do Melkite laity have different paper mitres?

Alex

I have one of those! I make mine out of a cloth napkin. You can, too!
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1. Fold napkin bringing top to bottom.
2. Fold corners to center line.
3. Turn napkin over and rotate 1/4 turn.
4. Fold bottom edge up to top edge and flip point out from under top fold.
5. Turn left end into pleat at left forming a point on left side.
6. Turn napkin over and turn right end into pleat forming a point on right side.
7. Open base and stand upright.
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Dear Wondering,

BRILLIANT! BRILLIANT!

Bravo!!

I once knew an Orthodox priest who thought the two "horns" of the mitres of the Pope was "proof positive" that he was in league with the you-know-what!

Ciao,

Alex

I think the west would be foolish to simply drop filioque without far more compelling theological evidence than exists.

Now if she wanted to drop the canonical restrictions against a married clergy that she's imposed on eastern Catholics then I'd say that would be a good thing and more than justifiable.

As I said there is nothing historically immutable about the Creed as it has been passed down through translation after translation.

The Canon has long since been breached...so to speak.

Eli

I was under the impression that everything in the BC liturgy had to be substantiated scripturally. Am I wrong on that point? I believe that there is actually a publication that references where in scripture each phrase (or paraphrase) originates.

John's Gospel states unequivocally that the "Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father."

Sophia

Eli the Latins are not the reason the various Non Latin churches are at 6s and 7s on the celebacy stuff. Some have taken the lead and just got on with things, others are still not in line with the Pope of Rome 2006 and and think some monsignore is going to hold their hand and take them and show them what it is they should be doing. Only the non Latin bishops holding things up in that area today.

The Church determines what is in official prayers of the Church in the Catholic / Orthodox tradtions. An explantation that I have to hand.
http://compassreview.org/autumn05/6.html
There are texts on the UGCC Canadian & Australian sites among many others.

Dear Sophia you said:

I say:

In my own 'personal' comprehension, I perceive that the 'Word' comes through Jesus, who is the 'Word of God'. I cannot see Jesus as the Creator of that Word, but can only perceive it as coming through Him.

By the same account, the comprehension of that 'Word' when it is given to us, comes from our Creator, God the Father. So the Holy Spirit would therefore come 'through' Jesus to give us that Word, and from the Father so that we may comprehend that Word.

I'm now going to make my bishop's mitre.

Zenovia

I think I pointed out that there are multiple translations of the Creed in English today that have nothing to do with filioque. They vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction,leaving me to think that there is no one universal translation even among papes, much less between sister churches.

And I don't know that you are correct to say that Rome is out of the business of mandating celibacy outside of the Latin rite. I simply think that it has been under severe challenge during the 20th century and beyond.

I know what I am saying. But I am not sure what you are saying? precisely? exactly?

Eli

Precisely what I was not saying on this or other points raised here and and in other places. That also applies to statements I made today and in all my yesterdays. I am so pleased Eli you are as as on and off the ball as I am. Sort of like those chaps, who back to back, faced each other, drew their swords and shot each other. *searches frantically for his tablets*
Ciao

Dear Eli - you said

"I think the west would be foolish to simply drop filioque without far more compelling theological evidence than exists."

I agree with this. Indeed I think that theologicaly speaking the filioque is uncontroversial for at least two reasons

(1) If the Son receives from the Father everything that the father is (other than the fact that he is the father), then he receives from the father the power to 'issue forth' the Spirit.

(2) Unless we have the Spirit proceeding from both Father and Son, then there is no distinction between the SOn (who comes from the Father alone) and Spirit. Remmber it is only the relations between the persons that individuates them. The Son will then be ther one who comes from the Father and the Spirit is the one who comes from Both.

Paul