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GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST!
GLORY TO HIM FOREVER!

Chtec wrote:"...Showing Jesus as an Apache is almost as bad as showing him with blonde hair and blue eyes..."

The parish my grandparents helped found and the one where I was baptized had a blonde-haired Christ. It was there for over 70 yrs until they decided to renovate the interior of the church.

The "renavators" painted over Christ's blonde hair and gave him brown hair. They also painted over the God the Father on the ceiling over the main altar. There was a gorgeous blue with gold stars ceiling over the altar; now it's tacky-looking multi-colored ceiling that looks like left over confetti from a bad New Year's Eve party at Studio 54.

This parish also never had an ikonostas. They hired an "ikonographer" and had one started. I was so excited when I heard about this. When I saw the first of the ikons, I sat in church and cried. I've never seen anything quite like it.

We are drawn to a closer relationship with God by many different means. It may be nice sunny morning, or like the Holy Prophet Elias, the voice of God on the wind. It might be an ikon of Fr. Mychal Judge or might be a simple wood carved ikon of the Virgin and Child. I think the point is that we are drawn closer to God by whatever means and we are better people for it.

Hoping everyone has a wonderful Feast of the Dormition if you're celebrating today and an easy Fast if you are celebrating later.

the least servant
mark

Mark,

Was that you there with Andy Warhol?

Axios

Hi Axios!

Not me, I was kolo dancing with the Tamburitzans at Carneige School of Music....

mark

Friends,

Call me an old fuddy duddy if you like but I find the image at this link offensive at best, at worst blasphemous:

http://www.bridgebuilding.com/narr/mld.html

Of course, there is much art that shows Our Lord unclothed...but why did Mr. Lentz feel the need to show us..... pubic hair?

I think much of Mr. Lentz work shows great skill and artisanship. He does, however, have an obvious agenda.

We all know Our Lord was Male...was this necessary?

Bob

Dear Bob,

I don't like that either. When it comes to such, I'm like the honey-bee, fluttering from flower to flower and taking what agreeable nectar I find in each.

Alex

A quick persusal of the offerings by Mr. Lentz on this site shows a definite choice of subjects and interpretations. While his traditional work is nice, most of the other stuff is syncretistic and in my opinion dangerous. Further as another poster, noted his portrayal with haloes and Greek insciptions, of persons who are not even locally recognized saints is again dangerous.

His choice of subjects such as Harvey Milk surely gleans much comment as it should. What is more dangerous is that he makes statements statements such as " Ss. Sergius and Bacchus are ancient Christian martyrs who were tortured to death in Syria because they refused to attend sacrifices in honor of Jupiter. Recent attention to early Greek manuscripts has also revealed that they were openly gay men and that they were erastai, or lovers. These manuscripts are found in various libraries in Europe and indicate an earlier Christian attitude toward homosexuality." And "According to the early manuscripts, Bacchus told Sergius to persevere, that the delights of heaven were greater than any suffering, and that part of their reward would be to be re-united in heaven as lovers." Found at:

http://www.bridgebuilding.com/narr/tsb.html

I am not a bigot as I am sure some will say. On the contrary I consider that I am rather open-minded. The above statements however seem a bit 'over the top' and to the best of my knowledge have no support in the Christian Tradtion.

Bob

http://www.bridgebuilding.com/narr/tjd.html
http://www.bridgebuilding.com/narr/gso.html
http://www.bridgebuilding.com/narr/mct.html

These icons, and the accompanying descriptions, trouble me. Am I just overly sensitive, or is there something not quite right here?

(Incidentally there were others that troubled me, but I wanted to single out these three.)

The first I have a copy of, it was a gift from a friend.

But as to the larger issue of 'troubling', I would just suggest extreme restraint. These are not being errected in anyone's parish. They are simply images made by one artist available to inviduals who have an interest in one.

Axios

It is extremely troubling, and leads me to suspect those icons by Mr Lentz that are not "questionable". Due to the fact that his troubling icons, with the descriptions, shows a certain mindset.

I do not purchase icons from monasteryicons because of the new age question there.

Why should I support someone who produces icons that promote a gravely disordered world view??


David

My church uses Monastary Icons. I hate them!

Instead of complaining I have decided to buy the Church a hand painted Icon as a Christmas gift to the Church.

I have only $300.00 to spend. Any recommendations of a good Iconographer (i.e. Monk). Please include contact information. Which Icon would you recommend? I was thinking about Theotokos and Christ Child or maybe the patron saints of the church.

God Bless!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidB:
[QB]
Why should I support someone who produces icons that promote a gravely disordered world view??

It that because you have a particularly different political view from the artist? That is not enough basis for a complete rejection of his work. AGain, these are not Orthodox icons but in my opinion, they are artistic images. I have a few of Lentz's works. I don't have my priest bless them but i do have them in my home. They are inspirational without being a part of my Orthodox spiritual life.

[ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: Brian ]

I too don't care for some of the subjects from BridgeBuilders. Merlin? I don't think so. I collect holy cards as a hobby. Some of the saints are not available anywhere. (Sergius and Bacchus). I use the note cards to send holy cards to my friends in Europe. I ignore the "homosexual thing". Its interesting: all of sudden, manuscriptis crop up like crop circles in Europe supporting homosexual saints.

I have never seen a blonde hair blue eyed Christ. I was surprised a poster said he had an icon in his church of a blonde Christ. A blue eyed Christ is heretical. It was a ploy used by the enemies of the Church to prove Christ wasn't divine. They said Mary was raped by a Roman soldier.

Actually, recent evidence on the Shroud of Turin indicates that Christ might have had blond hair. Perhaps that is one of the reasons he was killed. He wasn't like the rest of us??? Ya think?

Yes, maybe portraying Christ naked is gross, but again, he was crucified naked. The crucixes with the diaper are being mainstream. We don't want to gross out anyone.

I have no problem with Monastery Icons. I have many of their subjects.

Brian,

While you may view the promotion of a homosexual life style a "political view" I, as a Byzantine Catholic, do not.

I tried to stay away from this issue when I was commenting on why I dislike Mr. Lentz's icons, but there have been comments about how great they are and other comments as to this nature of his works.


David

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidB:
[QB]

Brian,

While you may view the promotion of a homosexual life style a "political view" I, as a Byzantine Catholic, do not.


That is entirely your prerogative. As long as you realize that there are others in the Eastern Churches who disagree with your view. That DOES link up with political democracy and thank God for it!

It is not my prerogative, it is a teaching of the Universal Catholic Church, and a teaching that many, if not most, canonical Orthodox Churches share.

Take a look at paragraphs 2357, 2358, 2359, and 2396 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Political democracy and the Teachings of the Catholic Church do not match up. Unless you are a cafeteria catholic.

There are those who think abortion is ok, I bet I could even find some uncanonical orthodox church that finds it acceptable, does this mean that the abortion issue is nothing more than a political view? I think not.


David

[ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: DavidB ]