www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Icons & Iconography Before the Iconostasis

It's my understanding that the iconostasis as we are familiar with it in the Byzantine Slavonic tradition probably spread through the church in the 13th, 14th or 15th centuries (maybe earlier, maybe later - I generalise).

If so, that would mean the liturgy celebrated by Cyril and Methodius would not have used one, also Hagia Sophia was constructed in the time of Justinian and therfore would not have had an icon screen.

Now I know that for considerable periods of church history the icon has had a central place in Byzantine spirituality and must therefore have been hanging or standing in many of the ways we are familiar with today. But I wonder if there are any illustrations of the old holy places as they looked before the icon screen, particularly Hagia Sophia.

As a second thought, I am also curious how this would have affected the Liturgy of St John Chystostom and Basil the Great. (Is "the doors! the doors!" a later addition?) Let's get something straight, I'm no scholar. This is more like a hobby of interest and if the discussion of the rubrics gets real technical my eyes will glaze over and I'll get that funny expression, you know what I mean.

I am truly interested in these developments and I would love to find sources with which to study them.

In Christ,
Michael, sinner

I did a quick cut and paste job below. Food for thought.

"In the West, an iconostasis
(image-covered wall separating the nave (where
the people stand) from the
chancel (where the Altar is) is documented well before 1000 A.D., and well before such "rood" screens were used in the Christian East.

Anglo-Saxon churches had a wall between the nave and the chancel. The earliest recorded example of such a screen or wall comes from St. Brigid of Ireland's church at the Oak. Curtains covered the door-openings in the solid wall, and sacred imagery decked the entire wall. The image here shows a very late development of the screen, in regard to its open-ness and the rood sculptures."

http://www.odox.net/Liturgy-Western-Culture.htm

As regards the proclamation of "The doors! The doors!" in the Divine Liturgy just as we begin the Symbol of Faith, the Nicean-Constantinopolitan Creed, this does NOT refer to the "Holy Doors" (Beautiful Gates) of the iconostasis, but to the doors of the church itself. The doorkeepers, or porters, were to see to it at that point that none remained in the church for the anaphora of the most holy Eucharist that were not supposed to be there, e.g., catechumens, the unbaptized, etc., and then the doors were closed (and probably locked).

OrthodoxEast

Prior to the development of the iconostasis as we know it, Byzantine churches made use of a lintel or low standing partition upon which icons were hung. It was very open in nature and did not necessarily obstruct the view of the altar and presider's chair (in the apse at the far east end of the church). There was also a connection between the sanctuary itself and the ambo or amvon, where the readings were proclaimed. This often extended into the center of the church, to the area where hierarchs now frequently stand for the enarxis of the liturgy (the modern-day "cathedra"). Today, the amvon is generally limited to the slightly extended "semi-circle" that is fashioned before the royal doors.

Before the "lintel" was common, there was obviously no other type of partition between the nave and the sanctuary. The development of the modern iconostasis came about after the iconoclastic period. While Slavic churches tended to create "floor to ceiling" icon screens, totally dividing the two parts of the church (especially during the "baroque" period), Medditerarian tradition (Greek, Middle Eastern, etc) maintained a lower and more open style of iconostasis, which survives to our day.

I hope this is helpful. God bless you all.

Fr. Joe

Oh me, oh my!

Time to tear tear out those latinizations, like the Iconostasis? :p :p :p

Or, was the screen brought from the East, by Sycthians who also brought knowledge of St. Andrew the Apostle to the British Isles?

you would have to ask Fr. Keller

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him Forever!

Dear friends,

I always thought that the iconostasis was from the beginning of Christianity, a tradition that came from the Jewish temple where the holy of holies were seperated from the holy place by a veil. Is this not true after all?

A sinner,

Adam

In some of the non-Byzantine Eastern Christian traditions where there is no iconostasis, there is, nonetheless, a heavy curtain which is drawn completely across the sanctuary area (altar) during certain solemn moments of the Liturgy. Such exists in the Armenian Church and in the Assyrian Church, among others.

It should also be mentioned that in the Coptic Church one will find an iconostasis very much like that of the Byzantine tradition.

And let us not forget, that in addition to the development of the iconostasis in the Byzantine tradition, the development of a curtain immediately behind the Holy Doors also developed, and is still extant in many places, particularly in churches of Russian, Romanian, Serbian and Bulgarian recensions.

OrthodoxEast

I had been taught the same.

In the 4th century AD When St Basil was celibrating his new liturgy that God willed for him to recieve the Dove that was suspended over the alter would always jump up and down durring the concecration three times.Well as it is written St Basil was celebrating the liturgy and the Dove didnt move and he then looked around and found that one of the Deacons was looking at a beautiful woman in a lustful manner.So he had a screen erected to ensure that the deacons would keep their minds on the Lord.

Thank you Odo, OrthodoxEast and Father Joe for your help with this and also clarifying my misconceptions about the liturgy. There doesn't seem to be any pictures I can find to illustrate how Hagia Sophia and some other eastern Roman churches may have looked around the altar, at least I cannnot find anything. I did find a reference to 12 columns with the lintel across them. You would think that there were boatloads of info and drawings on early church architecture on the internet. I would expect some differences from the years 700 to 1400, I'll keep looking.

The mention of curtains or veils by OrthodoxEast in the non-Byzantine churches makes me think that this was also a very early practice because it is so widespread. This seems to me to be very suggestive of the temple curtains and I don't doubt that the similarity was intentional.

I was interested to see the comparison of the icon screen with the western rood screen. I presume that the origin is the same or it was a parallel development for the same general reasons. Do you think the congregation communed through the rood screen or the priest came through it to give communion?

I can understand the comparison of the sanctuary and altar space of Byzantine churches with the Jerusalem temple. It's the way we set apart sacred space and makes sense. I think the similarity is deliberate but I don't think that there is a historical continuity of Christian congregations building shrines and sanctuaries in the pattern of the Temple of Herod.

I had been taught that the Holy of Holies corresponded more closely with the Tabernacle which to us amounts to well crafted box. I'd like to know more.

Thanks again
Michael

Thanks Chad for that enlightening piece of history! It turns the whole concept around!


Michael
Sinner for some reason

For those wondering about the Jewish origins of the iconostasis:

The iconostasis does indeed have some of its origins in the practices of Jewish worship. In comparing the iconostasis to the features of the Jerusalem temple however, there is an important historical-time frame note to make. The more developed iconostasis in Christian churches is a product of the same era that produced iconoclasm, when there was a call for a return to many things Jewish. One of the reasons for the prohibition of icons during that time, was an attempt to be faithful to the commandment in Exodus, "You shall not make graven images, . . . " Along with this, came the idea that the church should reflect the Jewish temple and included other things such as the cubic altar, the separation of the "holy of holies" and seven-branched candelabra.

So, while the iconostasis may not have originated in the earliest of Christian times, it certainly does have a connection with a one-time Christian preference for all things Jewish, often in imitation of the Jerusalem temple itself.

God bless you all.

Fr. Joe

Michael,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

After Divine Liturgy this morning, the same question about the Hagia Sophia and the iconostasis ran through my mind.

If I remember right, San Marco in Venice has an iconostasis to set the sanctuary apart from the rest of the basilica. I remember seeing either six or eight columns supporting the lintel. There was a space where the Holy Doors might be, but no doors for the deacons.

Glad to see you in church this morning. We'll chat again soon.

John

Slava Isusu Christu! Slava Na Viki!

Thank you John, I have never been to Venice. Did you happen to go to Ravenna? Supposedly some of the best early examples of iconagraphy and architecture survive in Ravenna due to it's being the capital of the western empire to a later date.

Yes, it was nice to see you as well this morning. I wanted to stop and say hello but it looked like you had your hands full with family when I noticed you and I was being swept out in the flood toward the Narthex. I had already been to mass this morning and I wasn't sure if my car would make the trip (something really wrong there), but I had my BRAND NEW Byzantine Book of Prayer and you know, this would be my first Liturgy of Basil the Great so I couldn't resist!

I am very satisfied.

Michael, sinner