www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Attend an Orthodox DL

Brad,

First of all I am also a member. Second of all my posts were not harmful. I merely speak the truth. He was wrong.

Michael

Please correct me on this if I misundertand, but my understanding is that Eastern Catholics are never required to go to a Latin Rite Church. If our own is not available, we can go to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy. I also have been told that we Easterners can go to Vespers and substitute that for attendance at Divine Liturgy. I don't think we have all that legalism about Sunday obligations in our code of canon law. Any canon lawyers here who can answer this?

Michael,

I would like to know the numbers of the Canons that state that a person can fulfill their obligation in anyplace other than a Catholic Church. Because I have the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches with me right now and don't see it.
Michael

Michael, This is first and foremost a Byzantine Catholic forum, also with a multitude of different Christians (EC/EO/RC/OO).
This is NOT a Latin Catholic Papal apologetic forum.
As a Latin Catholic, remember we are a guest here please be sensitive in your postings.

Your brother in Christ,
Brad

Dear Mike,

I understand where you're coming from!

To attend an Orthodox DL when a Catholic one is NOT available is to surely fulfill one's Sunday obligation - although one is under no obligation to do so!

To say otherwise would be to contradict what the Catholic Church has always said about the Orthodox sacraments being valid etc.

And it is always when a Catholic liturgy is NOT available.

Check with your priest to determine if I'm in invincible ignorance or not . . .

As for my brother, Brad, I wasn't telling him to definitely become Orthodox.

I met with him briefly the other week and we discussed a few things.

Brad is one of the most deeply committed Christians I've had the privilege of meeting and God blesses him with His Grace!

Brad is doing fine on his own and he is most erudite. He has an excellent family and as he is attending a UGCC - he has excellent taste as well!

I'm looking at an abstract generalization here for argument's sake.

Say if I was married to an Orthodox Christian woman. Depending on the situation, perhaps I might want to weigh the value of remaining Catholic with the value of peace in the family and unity in attending Church together.

Perhaps it is impossible for my wife to become Catholic. Perhaps I might decide that I would become Orthodox because the value of peace in the family somehow overrides all else.

And I'm not saying this is Brad's or my own situation, because it isn't.

So I could see myself joining Orthodoxy for peace in the family.

And if my own church and community decided to join with Orthodoxy (perhaps a time would come when they would have enough of papal posturing to Moscow and enough of Moscow dictating how Rome should behave toward EC's), then, believe me, I would go with my church and my community.

I don't believe, for the record, that there is any real difference between RCism and Orthodoxy to merit continued schism - apart from the issue of the papacy itself.

If any of this makes me a heretical schismatic, then I think the Administrator here would defend me, as would Diak and Anhelyna, I think!

Deep down, the Administrator likes me - or so I would like to believe!

If I'm in error, it is probably invincible error, so I think I'm fine . . .

Alex

Diak,

I am simply repeating the norms of the Roman Church, not making commentary on them. Note that I'm not saying it is a "grave matter" to attend Orthodox Liturgy, but grave matter to NOT attend Catholic Liturgy on Sunday, when it is possible.

In the Roman Church (again, I don't know of the canons of the Eastern Churches), a member is obligated to attend either a Roman Catholic Mass or an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy on Sundays. To disobey this norm is a grave matter.

To quote Canon Law (#1247):

And to quote the Catechism (#2181):

To repeat two things:

(1) This applies to Roman Catholics (like myself and Russell). I do not know if it applies to Eastern Catholics.
(2) This does not speak to the beauty, legitimacy, validity, or "catholicity" of Orthodox Liturgies. It is simply recognizing the reality that we are not yet in full communion, so to attend a Church that we are not in communion with does not fufill our obligations to the Church to which we are in communion with.

Alex,
After those kind words about me(which I'll so dearly try to live up to) I'll defend you as well..

Dear Brother Francis,

I see your point and understand the quotes.

But, for the life of me, I fail to see how this proscribes any Catholic from attending, if he or she so wishes, an Orthodox DL if no Catholic one is immediately available.

I believe there have been Vatican documents on this issue in the past that allow for it.

But again only if no Catholic one is available and this is under no compulsion.

Alex

Dear Brad,

Thanks! You da man!

Now let's both of us get back to work!

This forum is way too much fun to the point of being addictive.

I think the Administrator should address this issue when he has some time . . .

Alex

Alex,

I guess I wasn't completely clear - I agree completely with your statement. Nothing proscribes this. In fact, if I could only get to an Orthodox Liturgy on a Sunday, and no Catholic liturgy was available, I would most definitely attend the Orthodox Liturgy.

I was simply emphasizing the obligations to a Roman Catholic if one is able to attend a Catholic Liturgy, which is the situation that Russell originally brought up.

Dear Francis,

Then the only other thing I want to know is why you have an avatar of what seems like St John the Baptist when you are "Francis?"

Alex

Alex,

When I was received into the Roman Catholic Church in 1993, I took the confirmation name of John the Baptist.

John the Baptist and Francis of Assisi are my favorite two saints. For some reason, however, I have not been able to give up all my possessions yet. Maybe someday! Of course, then I'll no longer be able to visit this informative forum.

I don't have it with me at work, but if no one answers this question by the time I get home tonight, I'll dig it out.

Blessings,
Michael

Francis, I do not dispute your citation. However, I would posit that nowhere in the canon and catechetical quote you gave does it state that the "obligation" is contingent only on attendance at a Roman Mass.

"Sunday Eucharist" and "Mass" from your citations leave much room for interpretation. I understand that any Eucharistic celebration in a church of valid apostolic succession fits both the letter and intent of the Roman Code you have cited.

Note that I don't think it means just "Roman Mass", but any Catholic Liturgy.

A very good point that I had never thought of. I know that every single canon lawyer I've ever encountered has interpreted this to mean only Catholic Liturgies, and not Orthodox ones, but you are right, it does not explicitly state this. I will have to look again and see if it makes this clear elsewhere.

Thanks for bringing this up; I am interested in the answer, so I look forward to studying the issue.