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Charles,

Canon 881 speaks of the obligation as in the Latin Code speaks of the obligation. The sin of not attending the Eucharistic Celebration on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation is the same for all Catholics whatever Church sui iuris you belong to. If one, of any rite, willfully misses Mass it is a grave sin.

Michael

What I am getting at, is that all the classifications of mortal and venial sin, etc. are Latin constructs. The binding under pain of sin that one finds in Latin law are foreign to us. We recognize sin, we just don't define it in such a hair-splitting way. One can willfully be disobedient and commit sin in any rite. The degree of sin, etc. is between the sinner and God, not defined in Eastern church law.

Actually, you are quite wrong about that. We are also allowed to fulfill the obligation by attending Matins or Vespers according to our Code of Canon Law. And like someone else posted, we see attendence at Divine Liturgy not as something mandated, rather an act of love. We are not required to attend a Liturgy that is not of our rite. We can do so if we wish, but don't have to. I would go to an Orthodox Liturgy before I would go to one of the Latin rite, although I have attended Latin rite Liturgies in the past and probably will again in the future at some point.

Yes a Eastern Catholic may according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church sui iuris celebrate the Divine Praises to fulfill the obligation. I wasn't wrong. I simply left that option out because we were on the subject of the Divine Liturgy and I wanted to make my point in that accord.

Michael

And I have gone to Vespers the night before a major feast when our Byzantine Mission was not having a Divine Liturgy for the feast itself. Another factor in the Code is "according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church siu iuris..." The customs and the head of our siu iuris Church are the law that we follow.

Hi,

Hi,

Not if you are Catholic (of any church or rite).

The Pauline Mass is the approved rite to celebrate the Eucharist in the Latin Church. It became law under the pontificate of H.H. Paul VI, and casting doubts about its validity or licitness is tauntamount of withdrawing your subjection to the authority of the Pope.

Canon law define such thing as "schism".

You may not like it, but you cannot affirm it is not valid or licit and remain a Catholic.

No, it is not out of the question. If your participation at a Latin Mass is morally impossible, AND if you are canonically a Melkite, the attending the Divine Liturgy at the Orthodox parish might be acceptable.

I would suggest, however, that you try one or two additional Latin parishes in your area. Maybe your bad experience was something particular to that parish you attended.

Shalom,
Memo.

Hi,

I am not sure about Melkites, or Ukrainians, but this is NOT true for Roman Catholics.

If we cannot attent a Catholic liturgy on Sunday, well, we just can't. No grave sin involved. Matter settled.

Of course, attending an Orthodox liturgy would be the next best thing, but it does not fulfill the Sunday obligation.

Of course, but that is not the point. Our obligation to attend the Liturgy on Sunday is not only an obligation with God, it is also an obligation with the Church.

That is why attending a non-Catholic liturgy cannot "fulfill" this obligation entirely.

Shalom,
Memo.

Dear Memo,

Yes, but only IF there is no Catholic liturgy available and IF Catholics would wish to attend an Orthodox liturgy (but they don't have to).

IF there is no Catholic liturgy involved, and one had no alternative, one could say prayers, psalms etc.

In the Eastern tradition, we can say the "Missa Sicca" or "Dry Mass" that we call the "Typika."

The old Celtic tradition used to prescribe, as I understand it, 50 psalms in such a case.

Actually, I don't really understand what you Latins are getting so exercised about.

If you want to stay away from an Orthodox liturgy when nothing else is available that is fine!

No one is forcing you!

Alex

Alex:

We, Latins, are just being careful, you know!

Amado

Deacon John,

We agree on both those points. I would only add to your second that this is also true in the Middle East of most of the Oriental Catholic and Orthodox communities (e,g., the Syriac Catholic/Syrian Orthodox, Chaldean Catholic/Assyrians), hence the pastoral agreements in place for many of those groups.

In the US, some of this can be observed between the Melkites and Antiochians in New England, as well.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Amado,

Yes, we EC's know the feeling!

That is why Met. Andrew recommended that our immigrants attend Orthodox services if they felt the RC parishes were out to "get them!"

You don't actually do that anymore, do you?

Alex

Alex:

Occasionally, I think, where Ukies are involved!

Amado

Neil,

you are quite correct, I intended to write, "for example" and somehow I wrote "especially". Thanks for the clarification.

Given the canons of both Codes, we actually see that the true underlying "obligation" for Christians is the "obligation" to pray, and the Church in her wisdom has deemed the Eucharistic Liturgy (Divine Liturgy, Mass, Qurbono, etc) as the premier service for prayer on Sundays and feast days. However, the Church also allows this obligation to pray to be fulfilled in non-Eucharistic Liturgies (Divine Praises, Liturgy of the Hours, Liturgy of the Word, etc.), especially when there is no Eucharistic Liturgy or when one is unable to attend the Eucharistic Liturgy.

Russell Wright,

as you noted, although you are a Roman Catholic, and have been attending a Byzantine parish for the Divine Liturgy. I would presume that the pastor of the Byzatine parish and/or your spitual director knows of your spiritual situation. I would again suggest that you discuss your particular situation with him/them.

The canons are in place to ensure proper order in the Church, they certainly do not address particular spiritual needs.

Since this discussion seems to be attracting over-scrupulous opinions from would-be canonists on one side of the discussion, allow me to demonstrate that two can play at that game.
It is the common teaching of quite kosher and respected Roman Catholic moral theologians that an adult can excuse himself from the obligation of Sunday Mass once or twice a year even for nothing more than legitimate recreation. [No, I am not making this up. Why is this not often taught out loud? - three guesses, and the first two guesses don't count!] That being the case, an utterly scrupulous response to the original inquiry might well be that the Catholic in question may properly make use of the possibility to excuse himself from the Sunday obligation, and then attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy if he cares to do so.

Bless, Father Unknown (Incognitus)!

Yes, I once confessed to a priest (who held two doctorates and one licentiate in canon law) that I missed the Divine Liturgy on a Sunday because I needed, at that time, to take the day off and just "flake out" - I added, "But that doesn't excuse me. . ."

And he quickly said, "But of course it does - that is a perfectly valid reason to miss Church etc."

As I walked out of confession I thought to myself, "Guess canon law-type priests aren't so bad after all!"

Confession really IS good for the soul, don't you find?

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex