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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Father Deacon John says that one may always count on me to cut to the chase . . . please accept my thanks. All compliments gratefully received!
Another of our posters tells that I "need to show some reference to this. I simply do not believe that any "kosher" Roman Catholic moral theologian has every posited your "two free Sundays" rule, and I've read quite a bit about it. But I'm no expert, so I'll be interested who these "kosher" theologians are."
While I've no principled objection to complying with this request, I have neither the time nor the sources immediately at my disposal, and I lack the motivation to go digging. There's probably a professional moral theologian lurking around someplace who has the info at his elbow, if not his fingertips. Bad thing, scruples.
Icognitus
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Father Deacon John says that one may always count on me to cut to the chase . . . please accept my thanks. All compliments gratefully received!
Another of our posters tells me that I "need to show some reference to this. I simply do not believe that any "kosher" Roman Catholic moral theologian has every posited your "two free Sundays" rule, and I've read quite a bit about it. But I'm no expert, so I'll be interested who these "kosher" theologians are."
While I've no principled objection to complying with this request, I have neither the time nor the sources immediately at my disposal, and I lack the motivation to go digging. There's probably a professional moral theologian lurking around someplace who has the info at his elbow, if not his fingertips. Bad thing, scruples.
Icognitus
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bill from Pgh Member
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To All,
On the subject of Sunday obligation, I remember reading in Bishop Kallistos' book "The Orthodox Church" that in Greece and many other countries the Divine Liturgy was not always celebrated weekly in every church or parish. Thus, Sunday obligation as Latins know it was never an issue.
Bill
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Originally posted by Bill from Pgh:
To All,
On the subject of Sunday obligation, I remember reading in Bishop Kallistos' book "The Orthodox Church" that in Greece and many other countries the Divine Liturgy was not always celebrated weekly in every church or parish. Thus, Sunday obligation as Latins know it was never an issue.
Bill As Latins know it, it still isn't. 
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Dear ByzanTN, Does that mean if I do join an Eastern church I don't have to go to church anymore?  A sad aside to all of this is that there are many out there, any Church, who don't bother to attend. You know, the Christmas and Easter people, and those who don't go at all. Sunday obligation is not what brings most people to church Sunday after Sunday. They come because they want to. Bill
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Originally posted by Bill from Pgh: Dear ByzanTN,
Does that mean if I do join an Eastern church I don't have to go to church anymore?
A sad aside to all of this is that there are many out there, any Church, who don't bother to attend. You know, the Christmas and Easter people, and those who don't go at all.
Sunday obligation is not what brings most people to church Sunday after Sunday. They come because they want to.
Bill No, it just means you won't have to feel guilty about it. I think the East is not as concerned about all the scholastic hair-splitting and being bound under pain of sin to do things. Our canons bind us by love to do what we already know we should do. Why people don't go to church is another issue that has little to do with canons. I could make my own observations and come up with a few reasons I think they don't go. Since I play for 4 masses every Sunday in a Latin Rite Church, I do know a few Latins. The biggest reason among the people I know who have quit going, is marriage difficulties such as divorce, invalid marriage and the like. The Traditional Catholics I know go to the Tridentine Mass and don't come to the regular parishes. Other Catholics I know have become so secular, they don't see a lot of need for the Church in their lives. A few reasons, but some lengthy studies could probably be done as to why people don't go to church.
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Actually, the Council in Trullo provides that one must attend Church at least one Sunday out of three, under pain of excommunication [unless, of course, one is lawfully excused].
People can be funny (that's hardly news!) and scruples can do serious damage. I know someone who at a relatively early age took a "vow" (without, of course, anyone's permission) never to miss Sunday Mass. Over the years the person has become drastically scrupulous in various unfortunate ways, and in fulfillment of this "vow" has several times put his/her health at serious risk - at least once with highly deplorable consequences. Many lay people, clergy and monastics have tried to help, but no one can dislodge the scruples from the victim's mind. Instead, it grows progressively worse.
So please don't be surprised when I react strongly and negatively to attempts to spread this spiritual contagion.
Incognitus
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As I recall from history, the Church developed holy days of obligation (Sundays and particular feast days) during the Middle Ages. This was actually a pastoral response against the abuses of the feudal lords, who were requiring the serfs to work every day of the week. So this really obligated the lord of the manor to provide his serfs with time for worship and relaxation.
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Originally posted by Deacon John Montalvo:
As I recall from history, the Church developed holy days of obligation (Sundays and particular feast days) during the Middle Ages. This was actually a pastoral response against the abuses of the feudal lords, who were requiring the serfs to work every day of the week. So this really obligated the lord of the manor to provide his serfs with time for worship and relaxation. I have also read that Friday abstinence from meat was made law in the West because the meat-eaters, feudal lords, were not doing any penance. It didn't affect the mostly vegetarian serfs.
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Well, I once asked a Jewish vegetarian what those who shared both his choice of foods and his ethno-religious affiliation would have in case of sickness. He immediately answered: "vegetarian chicken soup, naturally"!
Incognitus
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"vegetarian chicken soup, naturally"! Huh?  A contradiction in terms, no?  ...or, is a certain 'dispensation' allowed in the case of chicken soup?  Alice
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Dear Alice,
I certainly thought that "vegetarian chicken soup" was an oxymoron. But perhaps I lack the rabbinical-vegetarian mindset.
Incognitus
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Dear Incognitus, Perhaps the Rabbinical mindset allows vegetarian 'dispensation/economy' in the case of chicken soup? It is the 'Jewish penicillin', after all! In Christ, Alice
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Incognitus and Alice, A recipe for Vegetarian "Chicken" Soup - pareve [ cyber-kitchen.com] . It apparently uses a Kosher (pareve) vegetarian "chicken stock" powder. My non-Jewish vegetarian son informs me that this is excellent and can be purchased in health food stores, natural food groceries, Jewish specialty food stores, Indian/Hindu food stores, and many Jewish groceries (and, occasionally, in the ethnic food aisles of supermarkets in Jewish or Indian neighborhoods or those "in upscale neighborhoods where yuppie vegetarians live" - the latter not being descriptive of my son's neighborhood :p ). Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally posted by Russell Wright:
I am a Roman Catholic who lives in Raleigh, NC and have been attending Divine Liturgy at a local Ruthenian Byzantine church � which I absolutely love. Waaaaaaaaa, I miss home....Hi Russell, welcome to the forum... (By the way, if you're ever in the DC area over the weekend, PLEASE find the Melkite-Greek Catholic Church in Tyson's Corner, VA. It is absolutely amazing!) Hmmm...the kids are not happy in our new parish up here. Wonder if they might be willing to try the Tyson's Corner parish when we tell them you recommended it... Vie Who really should get around to changing her membership info to reflect the move from North Carolina to Maryland.
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