www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Attend an Orthodox DL

I was visiting my sister in Lexington, KY over the weekend and was looking for a parish in which to attend Mass. I am a Roman Catholic who lives in Raleigh, NC and have been attending Divine Liturgy at a local Ruthenian Byzantine church � which I absolutely love. We have many problems here in the Raleigh diocese, and I find that I can only faithfully worship the Trinity at the local Byzantine church.

My problem is this � there was no Byzantine Catholic church in Raleigh, and as far as I could tell, there is no RC indult traditional Mass anywhere near Lexington. I ended up attending a Novus Ordo Mass and, of course, was terribly disappointed. It makes my skin crawl! Later, I found out there is an Antiochian Orthodox parish in Lexington, which is virtually identical to the Melkite parish I attended in McLean, VA while living in DC. (By the way, if you're ever in the DC area over the weekend, PLEASE find the Melkite-Greek Catholic Church in Tyson's Corner, VA. It is absolutely amazing!)

What about attending the DL at the Orthodox parish while visiting my sister? Is it absolutely out of the question? I know there are differing opinions today as to whether the Novus Ordo is legitimate, or illicit. Traditionalists would probably just stay home on Sunday in Lexington - or drive 90 minutes to Cincinnati to attend an indult Mass.

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but would love to get everyone's input.

Russell, although I'm not officially a Byzantine Catholic, but, as the first responder to your post, I would like to welcome you to the forum.

As to your question. I am a Latin Catholic, my wife and my 13 month old daughter are both Greek Orthodox. Essentially my family is "Patriarchally" divided.
It is, however my moral responsibility to educate my daughter and expose her to the Church she was initiated into.
I attend the Orthodox DL and participate as much as possible, without receiving Holy Communion. I bring my daughter up to the chalice to receive.
I notice my wife's family looking at me, knowing that I'm not "one of theirs" with a feeling of respect. I believe that ecumenism should and can be started at the lay level.

Brad.. who stands out like a sore thumb in a Greek Orthodox DL.. but hopes will someday blend in

Dear Friend,

Of course you may attend an Orthodox DL!

You could not attend Holy Communion, but that doesn't prevent you from attending the services.

I visited an OCA parish in Florida when I was down there and I was warmly welcomed to stay for the DL.

(The priest also said he would be pleased to receive me into Orthodoxy, when I was ready - he saw me rifle through his icon catalogues with a zeal that probably was the reason that prompted him to say this!)

The UGCC Metropolitan Bl Andrew Sheptytsky met with the mother of the Russian Catholic Exarch, St Leonid Fyodorov.

She had come into communion with Rome and her RC chaplain had forbidden her to attend Orthodox services, kiss the Cross etc. And she was used to attending services daily!

Met. Andrew told her, "Of course you can attend the services! Are they not holy? Is not the Cross holy?"

Met. Andrew instructed EC immigrants from Eastern Europe to even go regularly to Orthodox services when EC ones were not available - rather than attend RC services as he had found out that the RC's were trying to bring the EC's over to their particular Church.

Alex

Dear Brad,

I believe you might want to consider becoming Orthodox.

Alex

Russell,

I would like to give you what I believe is the "official" answer, in terms of your obligations as a Roman Catholic.

First of all, of course you may attend an Orthodox Church (but not receive communion). However, this would not fulfill your Sunday obligation, and therefore, you are supposed to also go to a Catholic Mass or a Eastern Catholic Liturgy as well. Purposefully not attending a Catholic Mass (or Liturgy) on Sundays is considered a "grave matter", and therefore could be a mortal sin.

Although I personally love the Norvus Ordo, when properly celebrated, I do understand your problems with it. However, as Catholics we are obligated to attend our Church's Holy Mysteries, even when they appear on the outside to be bland, dry and perhaps even non-Catholic. As a Catholic, you are asked to be faithful to Christ through the Catholic Church, and that Church asks you to celebrate the Mass within the Catholic communion. There must be a truly serious reason to not attend, and I'm not sure having a personal preference against it would count (especially when it is only when you visit your sister).

Of course, I claim no authority over you; you should consult with your spiritual advisor on this matter.

I will 2nd that sentiment. It is Holy Transfiguration Church, and it is absolutely beautiful to attend. I am friends with the associate pastor's family, and I tell them all the time that it is wonderful Church. I am planning on taking my whole family there soon for a "field trip".

Dear Francis,

Whenever there is no Catholic liturgy available to us, we, as Catholics, do have the option of attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy, if we wish.

And, in so doing, we DO fulfill our Sunday obligation.

What God does in the Catholic Liturgy, He also does in the Orthodox Liturgy.

One could not, of course, attend an Orthodox DL when a Catholic liturgy is available.

But if I was where there was no Eastern Catholic DL, and I had the choice of attending a Latin Mass or an Orthodox DL, I would probably decide to go with the Orthodox DL as this reflects my spirituality, although I have gone to Latin Masses.

In my church, there has never been the tradition of automatically attending a Latin Mass if an EC DL was not available.

And one reason for that was historical pressures exerted by the Latins to convert to the Latin Church.

Alex

Alex, as we've already talked about this in person, I don't think I can make this conversion.
At least, not yet. I feel too strongly towards His Holiness Pope John Paul II.
I have since convinced my wife to attend the UGCC (Sts. Peter and Paul in Toronto) with me, which for me is nothing short of a milestone.

Brad....who is currently striving to be a "small o" orthodox Catholic.

Alex,

I understand the obligations; however, it is clear that Russell CAN attend a Catholic Mass, he just does not seem to prefer to (I don't want to speak for him, however).

I cannot speak for specific situations, and I am not declaring any action by another person a mortal sin, but I can say confidently that a Catholic not attending either a Roman Catholic Mass or a Eastern Catholic Liturgy on Sunday is clearly a "grave matter" - it should be done only for the most serious reasons. An Orthodox Liturgy simply does not fulfill our obligations as Catholics when a Catholic liturgy is available. I didn't make up the rule; I'm just repeating it. One must decide, in consultation with their spiritual advisor, how they can best fulfill these obligations.

This does not speak to the "validity" or the "Catholicity" of an Orthodox Liturgy in any way. It simply speaks to the reality of the schism between us.

One clarifying note from my previous post. I only know of the Sunday obligation for Roman Catholics - they are obligated to attend a Roman Catholic Mass or Eastern Catholic Liturgy on Sunday. I do not know if these obligation extends to the Eastern Catholic Churches. However, Russell is a Roman Catholic; therefore, in his situation, my answer still applies.

One must be obedient to the Church one is a part of, whether that is the Roman or Melkite or Orthodox or whatever Church.

Dear Brad,

Well, if the two of you want to go to the UGCC parish - that's the best of both worlds now, isn't it?

Good for you!

Alex

Alex,

You are very much INCORRECT when stating you may attend a Orthodox Liturgy that is not in communion with the Holy See to fulfill your Sunday Obligation. Canon Law, both the Latin and the Code of Eastern Canon Law, states that one fulfills their obligation by attending any rite in the Catholic Church. When one cannot attend a Catholic Church due to reasons that they can't control and it is physically impossible to go then the obligation ceases. As to RUSSELL, of course the Roman Missal in use now in the Latin Rite is licit. It is promulgated by the Holy See for crying out loud. There are a lot of abuses of course by prideful priest who do things incorrectly. But you MUST attend a Catholic Church to fulfill your obligation. Anyone who disagrees with this is not in conformity with the teachings and laws of the Catholic Church.

Benedicat vos Deus!
Michael

Alex,

To tell someone they might want to consider becoming Orthodox is wrong. The Church founded by Christ is the Catholic Church on Peter the Rock. You are telling them they might want to consider abandoning the bark of Peter. I pray for you.

Michael

Francis, I am puzzled by your posts. Why would it be grave for a Catholic to attend an Orthodox DL, when the Catholic position, as stated in Unitatis Redintegratio from Vatican II is quite clear about the nature of the Orthodox Church:

Considering the above statements by the Holy Father and the Council Fathers, it doesn't seem sensical to maintain that attending an Orthodox DL would not satisfy some juridical sense of "obligation". We have a very difficult time with that notion in the East, and we have suspicions of scrupulosity on those who mandate such things.

The only exception I could see is if one absolutely had to recieve the Holy Mysteries on that specific day in the Roman Rite, (again which I would have difficulty with such a guilty sense of "obligation"), which would necessitate attendance at another Roman Mass. Catholics should be confident in their faith and experience the riches of the East.

Michael,
I found your post a little harmful.
Alex and I have personally met a little while ago. Alex knows the dilemma I'm faced with and has offered much advice.
I think if Alex did not believe that the Bishop of Rome (St.Peter) was first in the Church, he would have converted to Orthodox long ago.

Please be considerate of our members.

Brad.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Just thinking out loud here:

Russell need not remain a Roman Catholic, especially if his interest in the Melkite church includes the theological/spiritual constructs as taught by the Melkite church. Only he can know this.

But if it is agreeable to him I would suggest making a canonical transfer. According to the Eastern Code of Canons he would be free to satisfy his "Sunday obligation" in an Orthodox church of his tradition without incurring a "grave sin", this in order to maintain the practice of his tradition when a Catholic church of his own tradition is not available.

However, since his pastor appears to be Melkite, even though he is Roman Catholic if he follows the Melkite parish spiritual life (holy days, fasting, confession etc.) perhaps he should seek the blessing of his own parish priest to attend the Antiochian church when travelling, that might work, although I am a little murky on this point.

If Russell is actually a Roman Catholic in every other way beside liturgy attendance this idea would not make sense.

In Christ,
Michael