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Alice- your posts are so refreshing.
-Daniel

Dear Alice,

What can I say? ............ I know!
Ditto Neil's post!

While knowing differences exist and realizing they could and should be overcome, in charity
you are willing to go the extra mile and face the heat out of love for the Body of Christ.

I think of myself as being of the same mind and hope I am understood that way.


To All,

I wrote my post about John Paul II because this thread is "Role of the Pope". I realize there are other people out there who are just as holy and sincere if not even more so.


At the end of my post I said "people need a leader", which was the intended point of my post. I know we already have leaders in our bishops.
The Papacy, however, is a worldwide focal point, even in the secular world, and it's visibility can't be denied.

This is why I feel we need the Papacy.
I am not one to deny the arguments of the Orthodox and say that the Papacy is what it is and cannot be changed. What changes would have to be made and would be acceptable to ALL to give the world a united Christian face need to be brought to the table and ironed out. The same goes for all matters that are hindering the unity of the Church.

I would like to be able to say that I'm content with the status quo and fractures in the Church don't bother me, leave it to the judgement day and it will get worked out, but Christ has commanded unity, and I being his most unworthy servant cannot but pray "Thy will be done".

In Christ, Bill

Dear Friends,

As Alice said so movingly, the personal holiness and charisma of Pope John Paul II is very powerful.

We see this especially in the aftermath of his visits to countries.

In Ukraine, there were, as in other countries, numerous "papal vocations" or vocations to the priesthood or religious life inspired by his very PRESENCE there.

Also, a number of these, from what I understand, are Orthodox who became EC after attending a papal Mass.

For me, the Pope's letter on the Rosary is something that I can read and reread constantly - it never bores me, on the contrary, it excites devotion!

When I had the Grace to be in the Pope's presence during World Youth Day in Toronto, one can truly feel the electricity.

And when he left, I went near the chair where he sat, where youth were constantly touching and kissing - there was electricity there too.

The only other place I felt such energy was at the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem. It is unmistakeable, that kind of energy and very powerful.

Three nights ago, I dreamed that the Pope had died and there was a funeral for him in St Peter's Square.

I woke up in a cold sweat, so convinced I was that this had happened and turned on the TV to see if it really did.

That dream has ruined my week and I know it was simply a conflagration of events that got jumbled in my head.

But the sight of it remains with me even now.

Lord Jesus, have mercy!

Alex

Alex, after all your posts so critical of Rome, it is heartening to see your personal devotion to this Holy Father!
-Daniel, who once kissed the ring of JPII

Daniel, you can be critical of the montane administrative machinery and politics of Rome and still love the Holy Father.

Alice, that was very touching and inspiring. Glory to God for you and your posts. I would add that this Pope really embodies a extraordinary kenosis which he has manifested so many times in his pleas for forgiveness for the misdeeds of his Church.

And such gems as Slavorum Apostoli and Orientale Lumen do continue to give us who are in communion with Rome by choice hope not only for our own future and survival, but a greater day of unity between East and West. This vision of unity has been so ever strong in his heart, his words, and his actions.

May we pray his successor carries on this most vital of tasks, the healing of our sick and disordered divisions between East and West.

And may he also continue to live out the full respect due to the sister Churches of Rome in full communion with her, who suffer as in the case of the Russian Catholic Church with no hierarchy, and who have amply proven loyalty to that communion with the blood of countless martyrs. Exarch Leonid, pray to God for us.

Dear Daniel,

Diak is right!

And, besides, the Pope isn't from Rome, he is from Poland!

(When my wife's grandfather once criticized the Pope for failing to acknowledge the UGCC patriarchate, his wife told him to "shut up." He then turned to her and said, "He's not a relative of yours that you feel you need to defend him . . .).

And the Servant of God, Patriarch Joseph the Confessor spent 18 years in Siberia for communion with Rome - but that didn't prevent him from disobeying Pope Paul VI when the latter ordered him to stop calling himself "Patriarch" and otherwise promoting the patriarchal movement.

I believe Patriarch Joseph's words in reply went something along, "If you will not acknowledge our patriarchate, then your successor will, and if not he, then his successor . . ."

One U.S. Ukrainian patriarchal movement once published a letter outlining a number of Cardinals that belonged to . . . Masonic lodges (whether that's true or not, I don't know and don't take a position on it at all).

They started getting hundreds of calls from American RC priests asking for a translated copy of the letter so they could give it to their faithful . . .

It would seem that EC's aren't the only Catholics critical of Rome . . .

Alex

Actually, I love the Pope dearly, and see nothing wrong with having a pope. A strong leadership is much better than the chaos we Orthodox tend to have at times.

When I stated the 'adulation', I was merely reflecting, through my own previous feelings and the difficulty I had in overcoming them, what most Protestants and Orthodox feel.

Actually what appears like adulation, is really extensive respect....and to that I say BRAVO. We could certainly use that in my own Church.

Zenovia