www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology pews, yet again

I am convinced that pews are evil. They cripple our services so they can't be served properly. They encourage sitting when the proper posture for church prayer is upright. Children are not free to roam around and discover God's house-instead they are confined to a virtual prison of wood. Veneration of icons(yes there should be many icons set forth for veneration) is impossible Entrances are something that happen only at the front of the church, katavasia are impossible. Funerals are awkward. Western practices such as kneeling on Sundays become standard, while orthodox traditions such as prostrations become too difficult and usually eliminated. I can't think of one good aspect of pews-NOT ONE. If we are to follow the guidelines put forth for us in Vat-II of returning to tradition, the first step should be the abolishment of pews.

So I put this offer here for all you parishes out there with pews. I am a cabinet-maker. If your parish decides to get rid of pews, I will come to your parish and make proper liturgical furniture for your temple (free labour-you pay for transportation). Analoi stands, iconostasis, Altar tables, benches for the perimiter of the temple, and icon cases and boards. You can sell the rest of the pews and with that money you can have icons painted for analoi stands.

It is a hard concept to grasp, but once you have a church without pews you will wonder how you ever managed having your church so cluttered up.

I forget who said "If you had an audience with a monarch, you would, like the rest of the court, be expected to stand-how then can we sit with disrespect before the King of Glory?".

It is proven that humans think and comprehend better when standing, shouldn't we make every effort to fully pay attention to the divine services?

Yet another advantage of no pews is the church is ALWAYS FULL. Instead of seeing rows upon rows of empty pews, you are forced rather to see the people that ARE present instead of the people who are not. Singing is easier, and young people find it much more interesting.

The offer is out. You have no excuse. Pews are evil. They are heretical. They have NO PLACE IN EASTERN TEMPLES. If you respect your church and are concerned about the luturgical wellbeing of your parish, you will bring this up at your next parish meeting.

I can't think of one advantage of pews, if you know of any please post them, I am interested in hearing other oppinions.

And as a 20 year old, I have to finish by plainly saying pews suck, big time.

Christ is Baptized!
In the Jordan!

Ilya

Ilya:

I agree with you wholeheartedly. But, if you don't mind the question - what brought this on?

Yours,

hal

I couldn't agree more. Do you accept orders for cantor stands?
Actually there are one or two legitimate uses for pews. Two small ones would make decent presbyteral benches to flank the Bishop's throne in the apse, and one could put a very few pews against the walls of the nave for the elderly and the inform.
An illegitimage use for pews arises from a psychological problem: a great many people feel threatened by an open space. I have no idea what causes this, nor do I know how to solve it.
Incognitus

Srangely enough - as a Latin I have to agree

Being mildly claustrophobic I find pews rather stressful.

I have to sit at the end of a row , and this can give problems as latecomers arrive.

I seem to be able to cope with a pewless area far more easily as I can move to keep my 'safe space'.

I would have though that agraphobics had more of a problem getting to Church.

This was actually brought on by another thread about liturgics.
I would always have benches along the side walls of the nave for the elderly. In Brampton, during the sermon, the older people sin on the benches while the younger people and children sit on the floor. It is actually very cool.
What makes attending the local church here in Ottawa hard for me is the pews are packet in so tight it makes me extremely fidgety.

Not having pews allows the liturgy to come into the midst of the people. It becomes an active service rather than a spectator sport.

Oh, did I mention that pews are a protestant invention and thus heretical? I probably did.

ilya

Let me tell you a secret:

Pews aren't really western either. The old cathedrals in Europe have no pews. I looked a little on the net: people claim that pews became popular during the reformation, when the protestants would preach very long "teaching" sermons.

Look at St. Peter's: see any pews?

[Linked Image]

By the way, I followed the link to your church. It looks beautiful!

When I was in st Peter's a year ago this time, what I thought was the coolest was the fact that in the middle of the church, in inlaid marble, was a round spot with an eagle in flight-an orletz.

ilya

Ilya,

I know it was just a typo, but the sentence did bring out a laugh! " the older people sin on the benches while the younger people and children sit on the floor."

Regarding pews and Protestants....

"Oh, did I mention that pews are a protestant invention and thus heretical? I probably did."

SO, all Protestant inventions are heretical? Does that imply that those churches that have pews are then by association, heretical? I know of some OCA churches that have pews.

Does the building, and it's interior particulars, define the Church?
Is worship entirely defined by the building or by the faith of the worshipers?


STeve Petach

It pains me to see oca churches with pews, a big mistake was made by introducing them. I don't doubt at all that faithful, congregated anywhere, are what make up a real church. But in my mind, a clearing in a forest is a more appropriate temple than most churches. Pews are a disease that most of our people have become so used to, they have become attatched to it, no longer remembering what it feels like to be healthy.

the "sin" bit is pretty funny. I won't edit the post.

Ilya

Out with the pews!
Stephanos I
Unworthy Monk and Archsinner

Cripple is the ideal word, Illya. A little more direct than "hinder". I'm with you 1000%. I just wish I was a bit better with something other than a chain saw....at least they work good for taking the pews out.

PEWS???? Anathema!!!!!!! Anathema!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK OK - remove the pews - no hassle about that [ and me an RC too :p ]

Well there are only benches round the walls on the Church I know well - though they do bring in folding chairs . Don't mind standing at all - but I really do object to kneeling on their unconfortable sort of dimpled floor tiles - that really is a penance

Well, the individual can bring something more comfortable to kneel on. The parish can decide to have a better flooring. And everyone can cooperate to keep the floors clean! Incognitus

In the Diocese of Philadelphia and Eastern Pennsylvania of the OCA, I would say that most churches, including mine, have pews. Maybe three or so do not have pews.

Ilya, I bet my priest would love to take you up on the offer. However, I think a lynch mob with pitchforks and other such items would gather for your welcome and then proceed to the rectory...

Dave