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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
[QB]Dear Stuart,

>>>Your discourse on the pseudepigrapha is fascinating.

The deuterocanonicals describing the Entrance into the Temple of the Mother of God were, of course, used for the Feast and liturgical services in honour of this event.

I've come across Roman Catholic writers who have ridiculed this feast, saying it is spurious BECAUSE it is based on such texts.

They also say that the entire event would never have happened.

Your response?<<<

That Roman Catholic writers who say such things ought to think twice. Or maybe even once.

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Dear Stuart,

Remember way back when when I asked you about how you would characterize the present RC tradition of fasting?

And remember how you said, "Lax?"

And remember when I said you should get an honorary doctorate for that response?

Well, you should get another for your post just now, Big Guy!! smile smile

Or at least some sort of award from the Administrator here.

I really think the Administrator should consider issuing an honours system here for just such magnificent posts!

Have a great weekend!

Alex

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Dear Catholicos,

Yes, it seems that He had to be smile

Antonios is termed "fanatic" in the pseudepigrapha and who wanted to actually disrupt the funeral of the Mother of God!

He wanted to commit the ultimate sacrilege and had both hands cut off by an angel for his trouble (in response to the other thread on angels, I guess this angel took it PERSONALLY!).

The apostles then returned his hands and they reattached themselves, much like with the miracle of St John Damascus and his hand.

Antonios was converted and dedicated himself to the Gospel ever after.

(Is this where the original, "Look, no hands!" came from? Or the "Give me a hand, will you?" or even, giving it a contemporary twist, "What is the sound of NO hands clapping?") smile

In any case, he should have been happy he didn't have his head handed to him by the Apostles . . .

O.K., let's go on to the next point, shall we?

The Dormition/Translation of St John the Theologian is liturgically celebrated and reflects, again, the pseudepigraphical and liturgical tradition that understood St John to have been bodily taken to heaven.

Let me quote you from the Akathist to St John the Theologian, Ekos 11:

". . .Thou didst order thy disciples to bury thee alive, but when they came to thy grave in the morning and dug it out, they found it empty. Only then they realized that thou hadst accomplished thy transition by an unusual human death or falling asleep . . ."

Kontakion 12:

"Grace is given by God to the place where thy body was committed to the earth, so that on the day of thy burial it emitteth a fine dust for the healing of the sick . . ."

And although the Conception of John the Theologian is not a feast, as is that of the Conception of St John the Baptist, mention of a special grace given to St John the Theologian is made in some places in the liturgical services, but since I have my Akathistnyk (Jordanville edition) in front of me (never leave home without it!), Kontakion 2 has this to say: "Seeing the spotless purity of thy heart, undarkened by carnal pleasures, Christ the Lord judged thee to be worthy of the vision of mystic revelations . . ."

John the Theologian is especially feted by the Eastern Church as its special Evangelical Patron and his translation to Heaven is honoured highly.

St Nicholas is one other saint whose liturgical services suggest he too was conceived in holiness along with John the Baptist, although there is no feast for his conception.

There are Western Catholic devotions to the (Immaculate) Conception of St Joseph, especially in Spain (Spain declared the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God to be normative throughout its empire years before it was proclaimed a doctrine by Rome).

St Joseph's immaculate conception and also his dormition and bodily translation to heaven were honoured as private theological opinions and devotions in some Latin countries.

This also led to the devotion to the "Three Holy Hearts:" The Sacred Heart of Jesus, the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the Admirable Heart of Joseph.

One Pope even had his papal arms decorated with the picture of the Three Holy Hearts.

And yes it is a slow afternoon for me . . .

Alex

[ 08-01-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

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I concur with George Blaisdell's description of the Dormition Fast- no meat, fish, dairy (including eggs), etc. with relaxing on alcohol and olive oil on weekends. These are frequently the fasting requirements for Orthodox. Wednesday and Friday fasts are in commemoration of the Betrayal by Judas, and the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. As with all things orthodox, there are exceptions, such as feast days. Orthodox fast about 6 months of the year in this fashion, and it definitely helps you focus on things of the Spirit. It also lowers my cholesterol! A spiritual advisor can help guide to what is best, given age and physical condition.

Jim

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Kimberly,

I think you were speaking coloquially when you said that you wished to "convert" to BC. Technically, and you probably already know this, you do not convert. We are all Catholics. Nevertheless, we would welcome you with open arms if you decided to worship regularly at a BC Church.

If I've erred those more learned will kindly correct me.

Dan L

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Friends,

I am curious what the different parishes are doing (or not) liturgically as preparation for the feast of the Dormition. I would appreciate hearing from as many as care to weigh in on this issue. Thanks for the time.

Bob

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Basically, the feasts get us out of our ordinary lives. The fast calls us to be more fully aware of God in our daily lives, and reminds us of the necessity of repentance. Less we should forget and only think of these things once a year.

For what my 2cents is worth!

They made 4,000 spinich pies at church the other day for the food festival. Love those spinich pies.

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