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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Since another thread was closed, and I was out of town for it, I really just wanted to express my opinion on prostelytism and the Orthodox. I do not think it is an offesive question on whether the Latins should prosteletyze the Orthodox or vice versa. For 2,000 years in the West before the Second Vatican Council, a schismatic was anyone not in communion with the Church, and particularily not in communion with the Roman Pontiff. So any document that talks about "imperfect communion", "sister Churches", etc., has to be seen in this light. The Church is not a political party that can change its platform whenever convenient. The Truth must be taken from what was preached everywhere, by everyone, and at all times. For the average Latin, the truth cannot simply be what JPII has taught, but also what Pio Nono (that mean, uncuddley, "tyrrant" pope lying incorrupt in a Roman basilica) and other "closed-minded" popes also taught.
So what now? Bombard Russia and Greece with Jesuits? No, of course not. I have found that the Orthodox Church is also, somehow, also the Church of Jesus Christ. It has too many marks of sanctity and truth for me to deny it. I attend services in an Orthodox Church every week. But I shy away from "theologizing" about it, since most theology about it is too ambiguous and too removed from the real spirit of both Churches. I have given up explaining everything, and have just decided to live in the Orthodox Tradition the best I can, in communion with Rome.
My spiritual father, and hopefully, my future abbot, who is a "convert" from Orthodoxy to Catholicism (although he is Greek and really hasn't a Latin bone in his body) told me that the union between the two Churches will probably take centuries, that is, if the present world lasts that long. I am thus patient, and am in no hurry to convert any Orthodox to the Una Sancta. The issues are too complicated for anyone to be in bad faith, and I am not prepared to point fingers as to who is at fault for the schism. But I do believe that all of this "you're okay, I'm okay" ecclesiology is a dead end, and is only a result of puppy love that cannot be transformed into a more profound union. Tough questions have to be asked, perhaps those that will offend us, but they must be asked.
Thus, with grave reservations, I am a passionate "ecumenist."
Just my two cents.

Arturo

Dear Arturus

I didn't think the thread was offensive. I think the issue was presented incorrectly and it seemd as if it was offensive.

For 2,000 years in the West before the Second Vatican Council, a schismatic was anyone not in communion with the Church, and particularily not in communion with the Roman Pontiff.

I certainly admire the Roman Church and the Latin Popes very much (even post-schism ones like St Pius V and X, St Leon XIII, etc.) The West was very concerned about unity, it thought unity was achieved through a strong Papacy while the East was concerned about preserving its counciliarity.

It's true what you said (when there's Peter there's the Church) but anyone not adhering to the faith of the Councils of the Church was also considered schismatic, and the arrogant attitudes of Popes abusing their power ignoring the decissions of the Councils did not help to preserve unity.

The Church is not a political party that can change its platform whenever convenient. The Truth must be taken from what was preached everywhere, by everyone, and at all times.

This is something I admire about Traditional Latin Catholics. Both Orthodox Christians and Traditional Catholics, even when we're different, believe the truth to be inmutable, the faith to be the same. The liturgy is so important, it must be a living cathechesis. See? The Old Latin Church that separated from the East still shares more with the Orthodox Church than other Christians.

It's just a matter of attitude, the schism will end when both sides can go back to the point when they separated.

I think the reason the topic devolves into offending people is because the language used is often hurtful.

My Catholic and Orthodox cousins (as in my actual relatives - we're a big but close family) don't go around trying to "convert" each other and I don't think we should be doing that. We show each other the mutual respect we deserve and we respect each others beliefs and traditions. (Oddly, the couple of Protestants who married into our gene pool have ended up joining one or other of our camps eventually. We've also had the occasional Catholic go Orthodox and the occasional Orthodox go Catholic, but that's rare.)

To me, as a layperson, growing up that way, I prefer harmony. The Sacramental life of our churches is strong. It's a shame that we aren't totally joined, but we need to focus on our commonalities. I'm with JP2 - and with the prayer of our respective Liturgies - tone down the rhetoric and sincerely pray together for the union of all.