www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology "dramatic" eastern liturgy and contemplative RC mass

I found Christoir's description (on the Western Orthodoxy thread) of a priest's reaction to EC liturgy very interesting:

I met a Roman Catholic priest who told me that he preferred the Roman liturgy to the St. Basil or St. John one. He told me that he felt it had more of a sense of contemplation, peace/silence. He thought the Eastern liturgy was too dramatic, this priest was of german descent from Kansas I might add. The Eastern liturgy seemed to overwhelm him.

I wondered what impression y'all had of one another's mass/liturgy and how it affects you.

Peace,
Indigo

I would have to agree with him, but I like it. My dad equated the Eastern Liturgy to grabbing two live wires that shoot 10,000 volts into, except that it feels good and IS good. Kinda weird sounding, I guess, but that's how it seems to be.

Nathan, I think we met at the byzanteen youth rally. I hope your life is well. I think a survey should be taken to see what peoples impressions and opinions are about the different liturgies/churches, etc. I think someone took one here already but it didnt cover the cultural side. Perhaps I will try to do one. I've often wondered if people convert to the Eastern Church more because they like the culture or more because they like the theology.

I hope more people respond to this question because I think it is a very important one. I am convinced that certain people (especially reformed/protestants) become part of an eastern church more for theological reasons than cultural reasons, and also vice versa. I know personally a few people, some of them on this forum, that do not care for greek or syriac type chanting for instance and find it very foreign, maybe they even despise tabouleh (I'm eating some right now, I've eaten it my whole life) and much more prefer the slavonic chant and russian salads with mayonaise.


My own love of the Eastern Churches was in the beginning primarily cultural. I grew up in a very vibrant yet nearly iconoclastic RC church for the first 13 years of my life. I've always liked ancient greco roman/eastern food, art and music in arabic, as well as spanish music which is far closer to eastern music than english music is. I always yearned for beautiful frescoes painted in my church with romanesque type architecture and close knit community, as it might have been in older times, but without the bubonic plague. As I've gotten to know the Churches and read books I've discovered I like the eastern eclessiology and theology in some aspects more than the western, but not entirely, although the east provides profoundly valuable insights which the west needs badly, the opposite can be said as well. In many ways I have no preference between them because I see so much similarity and complementarity that the difference seems insignificant.

But I will tell you right here and now, if the culture switched and the theology was the same. I would go to the church that had the more traditional eastern influenced culture in it.

If the Roman Church all of a sudden developed Eastern traditions and Eastern Churches turned into very modern western industrial culture. I'd be perfectably comfortable in the Roman Church and very uncomfortable in the Eastern Churches.

The differences in the liturgy are debateably profound ones in a cultural sense. Perhaps we can even say theology is cultural eh?

Does culture create theology or does theology create culture?

Interesting stuff here.
Christoir,I think a poll would be a good idea, and the theology culture question is intriguing. I was brought up around an international assortment of folks, but have to say Middle eastern culture holds more allure for me than Slavic.That said, I'm considering ER because of the theology;it fits. (I can see how the Latin/Eastern theologies are flip sides in some ways, but I guess one side is easier for me to enter in through than the other.)

The only other ER church around is Maronite,which doesn't interest me much, so I attend a Ruthenian ER church. But if a Melkite were around I'd probably go in that direction. I've no intention of leaving the area anytime soon and don't want to wait until the remote possibility of moving close to a Melkite church.In the long run theology is more important to me than culture, and yet I have to admit that the strange latin/eastern thing going on with the Maronites is a turn off for me. The theology is the same and yet I want to see the theology and that happens to encompass culture too. Hmm.

When I first attended ER it was a pleasant surprise, but I was concerned that I might miss a more contemplative,quiet worship style. Nathan, the 10,000 volt analogy sounds about right. I know what you mean.Now that I find myself humming and singing snatches of the liturgy I understand how powerful it is to be able to make a liturgy part of yourself;to let it seep inside and move you Christwards. In the midst of all the singing I can sense Christ's presence.So, now I don't miss contemplative mass, and I'm so glad the homily is short.

Peace,
Indigo

I find this priest's statement a little odd. He is evaluating the Divine Liturgy/the Mass from the standpoint of a pious devotion. And while it may be easier to meditate at the Roman Rite Mass than at the Byzantine Divine Liturgy we do not go to meditate. He may also be self-conscious from lack of familiarity with the Byzantine Rite. I do think the Byzantine Rite is more demanding on the priest in terms of time, complexity, singing, coordination with others, etc.

I think the DL and the Holy Mass can be both.

I've been to a Ukrainian Catholic DL which was peaceful and "quiet" in a way, and I've been to TLMs and NOs that are so "dramatic" it'd make your head spin!

Overall, I prefer "dramatic" liturgy, and yet I prefer the TLM over both the NO and the DL. I find a Solemn High Mass as "dramatic" as any Eastern liturgy, for sure, although the Roman Rite historically incorporates silence and contemplation in its worship, interjected here and there.

Anyway, in terms of "dramatic" worship, I think our Pentecostal friends already cornered the market on that one! Speaking in tongues and all!

Logos Teen

You should hear Mozart's 13th Mass (which he didn't write, but never mind). Among other things, it's an experience of glossolalia.

Fr. Serge