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If I am Byz. Catholic but only have a Roman Catholic church close that I can attend...how do I raise a BC family without any BC support??? Should I just go to RC church?...or would it be better just to attend the local Orthodox church??

I'd go Orthodox but tell him that Universal Pastor is really a nice guy.

Dan Lauffer

BTW I'm surprised that there is no BC Church near you. I thought that they were as thick as a well kept grass in Pa. We have only one in the entire state of Illinois. Many states have none at all.

[ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: Dan Lauffer ]

I believe it was Anthony Dragani of the Eastern Catholic forum on EWTN's website who gave a good answer for your dilemma--he recommended going to an RC church on Saturday evening to fulfill your Sunday obligation and then attend the Eastern Orthodox Church on Sunday for Divine Liturgy.

God Bless,

Jenny

Anthony's got to be careful because of the people for whom he works. But in point of fact, it is not necessary to go to the Latin Church at all, unless you feel the need to receive Communion. As the Liturgical Instruction and the Code of Canons for the Oriental Churches both state, one can fulfill one's "obligation" (horrible term, not part of the Byzantine Tradition) by attending an Orthodox service. In fact, it need not even be the Divine Liturgy--one can discharge this "obligation" by attending Vespers on Saturday evening (this is true also in Byzantine Catholic parishes--the Liturgical Instruction aims to restore common celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours). If one is going to be around for a long time, one can establish a rapport with the priest, and very frequently these will extend the Chalice to Greek Catholics, especially if it is the direct counterpart of their own Church (Ukrainians with Ukrainians, Romanians with Romanians, Rusyn with Ruthenians, Antiochenes with Melkites). There are literally thousands of Greek Catholics camping out in Orthodox parishes, making no attempt to hide their identities, who are accepted as full-fledged members of those communities. I wish people would simply accept this instead of living in deep denial.

Dear jim58,

Is Parkesburg in Chester or Lancaster County? If so:

Blessed Virgin Mary Byzantine Catholic Church
82 Gap Road
Coatesville, PA 19320
Phone: 610-384-2025

The pastor lives in Mont Clare (Phoenixville), Pa. and, I believe, serves Divine Liturgy every Sunday in Coatesville.

According to Mapquest, it's 5.80 miles from Parkesburg to Coatesville.

Alternatively, Mont Clare is 33 miles from Parkesburg.

St. Michael Byzantine Catholic Church
Jacobs and Landis Streets
Mont Clare, PA 19453
Phone: 610-933-2819

Dear Stuart,
The plural of Rusyn is Rusyns.

Also, I think you mean "Carpatho-Russians" since Metropolitan Nicholas's diocese is the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese. There are, unfortunately, no "Rusyn Orthodox" churches.

Hi Stuart,

I am very new to both Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, so please forgive me if I'm misstating, but I thought that the Catholic Church teaches that you can only go to an Orthodox Church to fulfill your "obligation" if there are no Catholic Churches around (Roman or Eastern). I know it is considered a mortal sin to purposely miss Mass or Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic Church if you are Catholic, so I figured it was pretty important that he find a Catholic Church to attend.

I'm really curious: why is "obligation" a bad word? Why is it not part of Byzantine tradition?

God Bless!

Your friend in Christ,

Jenny

Thanks everyone for giving me some options. To those interested, yes there is a Byz. Catholic church close by that I had been attending for the last 5 years. I now refuse to attend because of our priests very poor moral character. I am raising two boys that he is esp. a bad example to !! The bishop knows about it but hasn't done anything so until this priest leaves I can't go back to my church.

It even get's better, I just found out I am no longer considered a member of our church and have been taken off the church rolls :-( WOW!! after 16 years of marriage and two kids we are not officialy Catholic anymore!!!and that's because I made a moraly correct decision. I wonder how often that happens???

[ 06-30-2002: Message edited by: jim58 ]

Jim,
Bishop Andrew DID do something in that situation. I heard he transferred the protopresbyter (dean)who brought it to his attention, following some parishioner complaints. Figure that one out?

Well Bernadette, sorry if I am just a little bit outraged.

So I lost my church, nobody cares, and the only way to impress anybody in the church is to jump up and down with a bunch of dudes in thongs!!

Jim,
I'm not saying that the bishop did the RIGHT thing by punishing the 'whistle blower' dean. I'm just saying that was the action taken.
I think the people had every right to complain about what was going on on church property, and their dean had a responsibility to bring it to the bishop. Unfortunately the bishop chose to see the complainers as the problem, and defend the priest's behavior.
Now legitimate complainers such as yourself are in a dilemma. They are either forced to accept the immorality or go elsewhere with their children.
My opinion? Don't throw your pearls before swine.

You can always complain to the Apostolic Delegate if you think you and your parish have been wronged...but be sure you have all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Documentation, documentation...including copies of complaints made to your bishop as well as any response from him. Bitching and moaning on here won't get things changed. You have to go through proper channels. Moe

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jenny:
[QB]

Hi Stuart,

>>>I am very new to both Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, so please forgive me if I'm misstating, but I thought that the Catholic Church teaches that you can only go to an Orthodox Church to fulfill your "obligation" if there are no Catholic Churches around (Roman or Eastern).<<<

The Canon of the CCEO (No.671 Sec.2) puts it this way:

"If necessity requires it, or genuine spiritual advantage suggests it and the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, it is permitted for the Catholic Christian faithful, for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, to receive the sacraments of pennance, tje Eucharist and annointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches those sacraments are valid".

All discretion in this case is left to the indivisual person in conjunction with his spiritual father, as to what constitutes "necessity", "spiritual advantage", and "physical and moral impossibility".

In my own particular case, I cnsider it of genuine spiritual advantage to me and my family to attend the liturgy of an Eastern Orthodox Church should a Byzantine Catholic Church (of any jurisdiction) not be at hand, in preference to attending a Latin Church which may be at hand. This is due to my own interpretation of the spiritual needs of myself and my family, and of our experiences in several Latin parishes when separated from our own parish. I will go even further and say that there are certain Byzantine Catholic parishes that I will avoid as well (after first-hand experience), giving precedence to an equally close Orthodox Church wherein the liturgical and spiritual atmosphere is better.

>>>I know it is considered a mortal sin to purposely miss Mass or Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Catholic Church if you are Catholic, so I figured it was pretty important that he find a Catholic Church to attend.<<<

There is no such thing as "mortal sin" in Eastern Christian moral theology (See, e.g., "Shown to Be Holy: An Introduction to Eastern Christian Moral Theology", God With Us Publications--a manual used for Byzantine Catholic catechist preparation). At the same time, the Catholic Church encourages Byzantine Catholics to attend the liturgies (including the Divine Liturgy) of their Orthodox counterparts in order to foster familiarity and unity, as well as to more fully understand the authentic Byzantine Tradition. There is absolutely nothing wrong with attending the Divine Liturgy of an Orthodox Church in preference to the Mass of a Latin Church. Thousands of Byzantine Catholics do it all the time. Being Byzantine has precedence over juridical affiliations.

>>>I'm really curious: why is "obligation" a bad word? Why is it not part of Byzantine tradition?<<<

Because it implies the dual errors of legalism and minimalism. Legalism can be expressed in the question, "What's the most with which I can get away?", while minimalism is the flip side, "What's the least I need to do?" Obligation implies that one is there because one MUST, under some form of coercion (in this case, the risk of juridical "sin"). It also implies that absent the "obligation", one need not do anything. Both are to be avoided. In the Byzantine Tradition, we don't want "conscripts" who are there because "they have to be", and who want to get out as soon as possible. We want willing volunteers, who are there because they love the liturgy and they love God, and are willing to offer up their whole lives to Him.

<<<

The modus operandi of His Grace of Passaic has always been to create minor problems with which he can deal effectively, in order to avoid dealing with the major problems that he cannot. This is just one of the more glaring examples.

Dear Jim,

Have you looked into any Ukrainian parishes in the area? I know Eastern PA has a pretty large number of Ukrainian parishes.

Stuart,

I understand that Bishop Andrew is about to retire, creating the minor problem of choosing the new Bishop? Maybe there will be more attention paid to serious problems after that.

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

[ 06-30-2002: Message edited by: Two Lungs ]