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CIX!

Happy Feast of St John the Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco!

Dear all,

For what it's worth, I'm Greek-Catholic and I spend my time divided between London and Singapore. When in London, I usually attend Orthodox parishes, visiting the Melkites or the Latins when I need Communion - the Ukrainians are far too latinised and ethnic, while the Byelorussians are too far out of town. In Singapore, for the Byzantine tradition, there's only a parish of the Oecumenical Patriarchate - so my family attends an Indian Syrian Orthodox parish, where we are given Communion.

Does this help anyone?

Once again, Happy Feast!

In Domino,

Edward

Not really, as I said elsewhere.

When one is in doubt as to where they should go they should speak to their spiritual father or if they do not have one, their pastor.

As these people know the state of your spirituality better than anyone over the internet ever could.


David

Dear Edward,

But didn't you say that there was a Greek Church you attended where a lady asked you to Cross yourself again and when you did it the Old Believer way, she grabbed your hand and told you to do it properly?

They wouldn't do that in a Ukrainian parish - there is too much liturgical diversity going on for anyone to know who is in the "Rite."

That Ukrainian parish you mention has an interesting past.

At the height of the Patriarchal movement, it was decidedly opposed to even the naming of "Patriarch Josef."

I understand that before they would let you in, they asked if you referred to him as "Patriarch Josef."

If you said yes, you couldn't get in. The Patriarch had to send confessors to confess people during Lent in the streets of London as a result.

What a mess!

Alex

[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Dear Stuart,

Your point on the Eucharistic sharing between "same-ethnic" churches hits home!

That is truly the case and Ukrainian Orthodox priests have been wonderful toward me and others in this respect.

I got so close to one Ukrainian Orthodox priest and admired him so that I even asked him if I was being honest and if I should become Orthodox formally (not in union with Rome ).

I don't know why I asked that, I just did.

And he told me to stay where I am, that I was already "Orthodox."

What a wonderful man!

And you're O.K. too, Professor!

Alex

All of you have raised some very serious issues.

I will pray for all of you and keep you in my prayers. Please keep focused on Our Lord Jesus Christ. He works miracles when you least expect it! :p

CIX!

Dear Alex,

That was in Holy Wisdom GO Cathedral in London!

Yes, I've heard about the colourful history of the London Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral- all from our man in Dublin, you will not be surprised to hear!

Your continued prayers are requested.

In Domino,

Edward

Dear Edward,

Yes, please give our priestly friend in Dublin my very best.

He and my late father got along very well. When he attended receptions at our family home, he sometimes got up to leave early.

My father would then rush out to grab him by the arm to ask him where he thought he was going so quickly and pulled him back to the table for coffee and tort!

Thank you for your kindness in sending me the Holy Oil and I'm putting it to good use.

May God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit bless you and cover you with the Divine Mantle of Protection, through the prayers of the Most Holy Theotokos, St Edward the Passion-Bearer and St Nektarios of Aegina and all the Saints, for He is Holy indeed and a Lover of mankind!

Alex

Just found out today that after 4 weeks our "guy" priest is returning :-(......So I LOST my church because, I WON'T go back!.
All you "Catholics" have fun :-(. I am NOT sure what I am.....guess I will "burn in hell" (if I leave the church ), but I will have lots of "priest" friends ;-). How SAD to find out after all these years most of the criticsm against the church was justified :-(!!!

Jim -

I have been following your situation with sincere and prayerful interest, and would, like others, encourage you to remain in communion with Rome. The struggle to maintain Catholic unity - a truly ascetical one at times - becomes especially acute when faced with the personal and sometimes public failings of our clergy. Any honest Orthodox Christian, however, will also acknowledge that such personal sins are not limited to one jurisdiction.

For those of us who believe, as did many of the Orthodox Fathers, that the Pope of Rome has an essential charism and ministry of unity which supports the broader communion of churches, we need to suffer and struggle with the Church. Part of this struggle, I would say, would include actively campaigning to have this wretch of a priest removed from ministry altogether. (As the father of three young children whom I would die to protect, I wouldn't mind a bit of public flogging either!:-))

I would second Anthony's wise and pastoral suggestion: receive communion in the Latin Church on, say , Saturday or Sunday evening, and attend the Orthodox Divine Liturgy on Sunday. You can continue to form your children in the Byzantine Catholic faith through prayers at home, as well as home-based catechesis. Try this for a year and see how well it works. By then, especially in light of recent decisions, this guy may be out on his ear and your parish restored to good order.

Peace and all good, my brother -

Gordo

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: CaelumJR ]

This is good advice....I need some time to think and pray about it :-(.

Jim,

I am sorry to hear of your continuing struggle. Again, don't make any hasty decisions. In a few months you will have a new bishop, who may see things very differently. Once your new bishop is appointed, I would recommend taking a group of parishioners to see him to state your concerns.

Anthony

From everything I've heard and read about Bishop Andrew Pataki he has been the most problematic of all of our bishops. It will be good to see him go. Much needless suffering has taken place because he would not stand up for anything except self preservation.

Dan Lauffer

agreed

[ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: bernadette ]

Dear Dan and Bernadette,

I know this is a distressing situation for all those involved, and it is very much about persons and personalities.

However, speaking for myself only, I would feel more comfortable posting in this forum, if we refrained from discussing individuals and persons by name, especially in any kind of judgement.

Let us discuss issues, controversies, and topical items freely. Would it be wise to avoid criticizing individuals here? The more scriptural thing to do, if we have an "issue" with an individual, would be to take our question to the individual concerned quietly, or perhaps with one or two others. The forum does not qualify, (1) because he is not here, and (2) far more than one or two others are witnessing!

Until we have done that, the next scripturally suggested course of action will have to wait.

Elias

[ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: Hieromonk Elias ]

:rolleyes:

GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST!
GLORY TO HIM FOREVER!

Hi Anthony!

The grapevine has it that the Holy Father has not accepted Bishop Andrew retirement and resignation. That's he's gonna be here for a little while longer....

mark