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How does the Melkite Catholic Church differ from the Byzantine Catholic Church in the US in terms of worship and liturgy. Is English used by the Melkites?

Hi:

Yes, but also Arabic and a little Greek.

The BCC (Ruthenian) would use English and a little Church Slavonic, but no Greek, I think.

Also, for Holy Communion, Melkites use intinction, instead of the golden spoon.

Shalom,
Memo.

I was alwaus found instinction to be very curious in the Melkites Greek Catholic Church as the Antiochians use the Byzantine "Spoon". Does anyone know when this began??

I addition to these things, there are other differences.

The melodies and chants are more Greek than Slavonic. Also the translation used is different. They do commemorate Orthodox Christians.

Also, from having served at both a Melkite parish and a Byzantine parish, there are actions of the priest and deacon that differ.

David

Just a small clarification -- Melkites are Byzantine! Although at one time we were Syriac, that's no longer true. I don't believe it serves anyone to assume that the term "Byzantine Catholic Church" refers only to the Ruthenians.

That having been said, there are differences other than those mentioned above. The most notable is the lack of reference to the pope other than in the tryptichs. He is not mentioned in the litanies.

The use of intinction for communion seems to stem from the time of the split between the Melkites and the Antiochian Church as a way of differentiating us, but this was more properly simply a tradition that grew over time.

Edward, deacon and sinner

Hi:

Yes, but isn't that the official name of the Ruthenian Metropolia in the US?

Shalom,
Memo.

Dear Fr. Deacon Edward,

What are "the tryptichs" to which you refer above.

Thanks!

Tony

Dear Fr. Dn. Edward,

You know, it's not so bad being Syriac... :p

Mor Ephrem,

I wasn't attempting to imply there was anything wrong with being Syriac. In fact, I'm not sure I know why the Melkites didn't remain Syriac! Fr. Serge Descy's book Introduction a l'Historie et l'ecclesiologie de l'Eglsie melkite doesn't really address much before the 1724 split with the Antiochian Church. Other histories seem to imply that it was simply the force of history/events in that area that led to the shift to the Byzantine model.

Tony,

Appaently my brain was fried when I wrote that. I was, of course, referring to the diptychs which the the point in the Liturgy where others are commemorated.

Edward, deacon, sinner, and apparently terminally confused

The times I have attended a Melkite service, I would say the melody (for lack of a better term) is more Middle Eastern

Most of the music used in Melkite Liturgies was, at one time, "popular music" that was appropriated and used in sacred settings. This is, in fact, common among a number of religious traditions. Therefore, it's true that there is a strong Middle Eastern flavor to our music.

Edward, deacon and sinner

All of Melkite *Chant* (not the hymns that may be used in certain parts) are 100% Byzantine Chant. Melkites and Antiochian Orthodox have more soloist renditions that are in the slower irmological tones, though, than the Greeks do. Also, there are some minor characteristics of execution. There are in Byzantine notation symbols of pitch like in Western music but there are also symbols which mean things that are subjective like "trill your voice."

The only major difference in theory is that Tone 2 is "chromatized" by the Melkites and Antiochian Orthodox (it sounds more like Tone 6) but even the Greeks do this in some parts of Tone 2.

The books used have exactly the same notation anyway.

In Christ,

anastasios

The most notable is the lack of reference to the pope

It is my understanding that this is done through (for lack of a better way of explaing it) heiarchal process. The deacon prays for the priest, the priest prays for the bishop, the bishop prays for the patriarch and the pope. Some where along the line this is in my memory, I am not exactly certian of the order, but it seems this is how it was explained.

In reference to the practice of "intinction" for the distribution of holy communion, I am under the impression that some Melkite churches distribute by means of intinction and others make use of the communion spoon. What, if any, would those Melkites here say is the ratio of intinction vs. spoon usage?

Regarding "Byzantine Chant" yes, it is a sometimes overlooked fact that the two traditions (Greek and Melkite/Antiochian) make use of the same tonal tradition. I have always felt though, that the Arabs do a much better job with the chant than do the Greeks. I think it has a lot to do with the manner in which it is rendered, in the distinction between the polyphonic harmonies and choral renditions often used in the Greek church and the "soloist with ison accompaniment" or "group of cantors" rendering the melodies as is more common in the Arabic tradition.

Despite the name "Byzantine" the melodies do indeed possess a strongly Middle Eastern flavor, probably shedding light on the origin of many of the melodies. Can the name "Byzantine Chant" refer somewhat to the fact that it is the tonal system used by the "Byzantine Rite" (the rite of the empire) as opposed to systems used in other Mediterarrian and Middle Eastern ritual traditions? This would seem to correspond with the division between those who were loyal to the emperor's church (thus the origin of even the word "Melkite") and those churches which did not accept the various pronouncements of the imperial-backed councils and other Constantinopolitan practices?

As has been mentioned before, it is interesting that much of the Subcarpathian chant can be rendered very beautifully and aesthetically when employed with the use of ison. Although this practice does lend an almost entirely different flavor to the melodies, it demonstrates the Eastern origin of much of our "liturgical chant" (as opposed to the more folk music variety used for the common parts of the liturgy, which is a distinction that occurs in many usages). While it shocks the cultural sensitivity of many in our parishes, Ruthenian chant with ison is to me, a wonderful way to render the music and move the worshippers towards "other worldliness."

Thanks to any who can offer enlightenment as to the frequency of the use of intinction vs. the communion spoon.

God bless you all,

Fr. Joe

Dear Fr. Joe:

In my travels I've never been in a Melkite church that uses the spoon except for first communion for newly baptized and chrismated infants or other exceptional cases. This includes parishes in Michigan, California, and New Jersy. However, at our clergy conference in October I'll try to remember to raise the question.

Edward, deacon and sinner