www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Please tell me this isn't part of Byzantine chant now!!

Dear TG,

Again, the point is not whether it should be but whether it is. Check out a ROCA parish in your area and let me know if they all sing the whole of any service.

I hope others here comment as well.

Tony

TG,

Also ask Nicky's Baba who was much surprised when she visited a local parish recently (check her post here ).

Tony

Tony is correct. In many if not most Greek, Russian (ROCOR) and Serbian parishes there are psaltists/cantors/readers who do much of the services.

The Antiochians and some selected OCA parishes are generally the only ones with more "full" congregational singing.

Also with Greek Catholics many Ukrainian parishes have a krylos/kleros and diaki (cantors) who sing many of the responses and propers and thus really don't have "full" congregational singing.

TG,

Not to be rude, and the internet is a wonderful tool, but go see for yourself please.

Tony

I have deleted all my posts from this morning. I don't like arguing, I am sorry I got into an argument, and I am going to stay away from the group for a while.

TG,

I guess you have missed the point. It is not about the West Coast or the parishes you have been to (you have been lucky) it is about Orthodoxy the world over.

Tell Diak he is wrong too while you are at it. I apologize if any of this is offensive to you. It is becoming more apparent to me that most non-Orthodox are happy with whatever notions they come with (I was one too not so far back but I wanted to learn) and are in no way intersted in hearing anything that might conflict with their (however limited) experience.

Tony

I honestly don't understand the dynamic here. I apologize again. I too have no business here.

Hmmm, well "Amazing Grace" is in a lot of Roman Catholic hymnals - I popped over the noon Mass at the Italian church up the street and they had it ("wretch" line intact, though). I've heard it sung in some very conservative Roman Catholic churches, too, including the diocese in Arlington, VA.

Maybe some Catholic bishop at some point decided that, despite Rev. Newton's religious background, his song was still a good hymn? I'm not sure, because I don't know who gets to sanction what hymn gets in the Roman Catholic hymnals. I imagine someone has control, or we might end up with "hymns" by Ozzy showing up. ;-)

I still like "Amazing Grace" a lot better than a lot of the soppier songs. I do take your point to heart though about the different - indeed, incorrect - theology Rev. Newton obviously espoused. I'm not sure his hymn belong in Catholic churches, but I still like his sentiment of conversion and the need for conversion, and even a person with wrong elements in his theology can surely come up with words of praise for God. I often feel the way he expresses in his song - wretched, sinful, etc.

One of my dearest friends is a gospel singer and songwriter -and I listen to her music. I don't agree with her theology, either. She doesn't agree with mine. Gives us something to talk about. But I see your point - a lot of her songs wouldn't really be appropriate in a Catholic Church because there are some theological differences apparent from some of the lyrics.

Dear TG,

I presented to you the possibility that your experience does not represent the whole of the Orthodox tradition world wide. If that possibility means you are "wrong" as you said in a previous (now deleted) message, I again apologize.

Tony

"Kumbaya, Hospod', kumbaya... " - somebody actually used this horror at Uniontown about 30 years ago. Leaving aside all other objections, the middle word is nominative, but the vocative (which won't scan) is clearly required.
For those who like congregational singing: it obviously works with Carpatho-Russian and Galician music. It works very well with Byzantine music (the real stuff) and with znamenny chant. That's quite a range. So pick what you like and sing! By the way, a good choir can encourage a congregation to sing. Incognitus

The vocative is Hospodi.