www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News sad news from the Epicopalian Church

yeah, and I'd be pleased if it would happen. maybe you can then send a few pioneers to Chattanooga to start some work here.
Much Love,
Jonn

Alice

I can certainly agree that we should all be reciting St. Ephraim�s prayer, and I place myself at head of the list of those that should be focusing on the words of St. Ephraim.

On your other point, I guess it would depend what you mean. We live in trying times, but the church has always faced trials and persecutions. I don�t believe the answers to our problems will be found be looking without, but nourishing that which is within us. I believe our main focus should be on internal renewal coupled with evangelization and spreading Orthodoxy.

Andrew

I am not so sure it is sad news after all. They have been on the slippery slope for some time. This can't go on this way and it is getting that Anglicans are seeing they can't be all things to all and call themsleves Christian anymore. They are being made to make choices, which their Church has avoided doing for some time.

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Andrew,

"Spreading Orthodoxy" to who? To Muslims, non-Christians and liberal Protestants or to Roman Catholics as well. If it includes the latter, I do not agree with you at all.

I know that the Antiochian Orthodox Church in America is focusing on making everyone in the U.S. Orthodox. I find that somewhat triumphalistic and arrogant and it reminds me too much of other religious groups that leave a bad taste in my mouth.

On other hand, thank God, my Patriarch and jurisdiction, and increasingly the Church of Greece as well, are committed to finding common ground with the Church of Rome. With the ever expanding Muslim influence on the world--the fastest growing religion--it is an enlightened thing to do. (Ironically, the Patriarch of Antioch is probably one of the most embracing Orthodox Patriarchs of Roman Catholicism--as the two live side by side in that part of the world..his love was so great in an encyclical I read, that I did not know if I was reading the words of an angel, a saint rather than a mere mortal like me).

Ofcourse, many American Orthodox don't give a hoot about what happens in Istanbul or Europe, and that is a point noted by foreign Orthodox who believe that such a mentality turns its face on history and on the rest of the world. I hope that you have not espoused that mentality because Orthodoxy cannot be completely seperated from its roots from abroad though that may be the desire of the Antiochian Church and others.

For instance, in Greece right now there is a media frenzy going on about the topic of the article Pani Rose posted on Church News...the exhumed body of a monk who died fifteen years ago is emitting a beautiful fragrance and is perfectly intact and fresh like that of a living person. A Greek Metropolitan who is also a University Professor, was on Greek television and explained to the television viewers that this monk had reached theosis--of the soul and the body, and that is why his body is like that...such profound theology is common in Europe but not necessarily in the U.S.

Anyway, enough thoughts for now....

Wishing you a most spiritually fruitful Holy Lent,
Alice

Alice, the church can never be separated from its roots abroad. Every year when we celebrate the Feast of Pentecost we celebrate the church born in a room in Jerusalem by the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles. What that of course points to is the true roots of the church which are in Christ, something beyond both time and place, yet still tied to a certain time and place. The church has many cultural manifestations, all of which form the beautiful tapestry of Orthodoxy, but the church because it is in Christ transcends them all. Orthodoxy is not Greek, American, Russian, Antiochian or anything else. It is the body of Christ, and if we let that be obscured we have made a mistake.

I believe the desire of the Antiochian Church and perhaps the others which you mention is for local governance of the temporal church, something which to me seems reasonable and well within the norms of the tradition of the church. In the case of the Antiochians they have been given the blessing of their Patriarch for that. I don�t see that at all as a renunciation of that particular church�s origins.

Now since you asked, I care deeply for the church wherever it is present. I grieve for Orthodox Christians persecuted in Turkey or Kosovo, because they are part of my family. I rejoice at the news of the Holy Elder who has been found to be incorrupt, because it is a triumph for our faith and a beacon to the secular world of both the U.S. and Europe. I believe the church should spread not as the triumph of pride, but as the triumph of humility exhibited by this monk, who I believe has been transformed by the saving grace the church brings to us. That should be available to all people.

I continue to believe the church will not be saved by looking for assistance or by accommodation with others, but by finding strength and inspiration within.

Thank you for your wishes for a fruitful Lent. It has this year been a trying fast and we are early in it. Let us both anticipate the glorious light of the Paschal feast and the celebration of the resurrection of our saviour.

A sinner and yours in Christ.

Andrew

OK everyone, Time out and take a deep breath!

I have been spending night and day for the last several days preparing for a national archdiocesan meeting and a presentation. I was kind of hoping that this thread would not become this problemsome, but it has. I am briefly going to lay out my views on the topic.

First, I believe Zenovia's use of the term "Apostasy" was incorrect. As Rilian eluded to, it means an absolute forsaking of the faith. You can not be Orthodox or for that fact Catholic and be in apostasy. You have completely seperated your self from the Church by being in such a state requiring reconciliation by sacramental means.

In essence this is the view of the Roman Catholic Church. The Orthodox and Catholic Churches in their discussions which will be ongoing as of this fall are refining and clarifying positions in order that a Council will be had under mutual understanding and position, so that in effect a reunion may be able take place. How it will formulate is yet to be seen, and many years of work are ahead in order for it to reach that point. Certain statements from the current pontiff seem to be encouraging to the Orthodox, but how it plays out in dialogue is yet to be seen.

Next, as far as scandals, both churches have their share and no one is without sin. I strongly disagree about debating these in this section. If you want to discuss them bring them to the Town Hall section. Just remember you do not edify or win converts that way, just bring down spirit and faith by digging open the wounds. True the faithful and clergy need to be informed, but as you can see they have a way of evolving that to discuss them in charity has yet to be seen. I can not see this topic regaining any discussion that would stay on course. I am deciding to close off this thread.

Let us rejoice that there are some still seeking the fullness of the Apostolic Church in these times. I also remind posters that we are in the Great Fast, and the temptations to be less than charitable are out there. I advise all before posting, pray first, then let the spirit of our Lord whom we seek to follow leads us in bringing His light to others.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
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