www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology What Exactly Did John Paul II Do About Communism?

I often hear it said that our holy Father, John Paul, did more than any other person to put an end to communism in Eastern Europe, like in Russia and Poland.

What exactly did he do? It's not like he held any real authority over Communist leaders. I've been wondering this for some time, and you Easterners might be able to anseer this.

Thanks again.

Well when he went to Poland and demanded in front of millions of people that communism end, and he then backed it up by supporting the Solidarity movement, that had a big effect on ending communism.

anastasios

Okay, my knwoledge of Communist/Polish history is non-existent!

What was the Solidarity movement, and how did JPII support it?

Dear Pax Tecum:

When Solidarity was established as the first independent Trade Union within the Iron Curtin, it was seen by the Communists as a threat to the Soviet order.

The Kremlin considered sending in a military force to invade Poland as it did in 1968 to Czechoslovakia.

The Pope strongly made known his support for the Union and for the Peaceful and free development of Polish society.

Unofficially, we also heard that the Pope told the Russians, if they invaded Poland, he would leave Rome, return to Poland, and help lead the defense of the country.

Shortly after all this there was the attempt on the Pope's life and the clap-down on Solidarity.

From that point onwards, all things eventually lead to Rome.


defreitas

Dear PaxTecvm:

You must be too young to remember Lech Walesa, who led mainly Polish laborers in the 80's against the stangle-hold of Communism (Soviet style) in his country.

For this, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Price in 1983 and went on to spearhead "The Solidarity Movement," especially in leading the unforgettable labor strikes in the Gdansk shipyards, with the backing of the Catholic Church in Poland and, more importantly, with the steadfast and open support of Pope John Paul II, which eventually toppled the Communist regime in Poland in 1989.

He was democratically elected President of Poland in 1990.

AmdG

Dear defreitas:

I think it was during the last state visit of Mikhail Gorbachev, accompanied by his wife Raissa and an official entourage, with the Vatican that the Polish Pope, John Paul II, revealed his true feelings to the Soviet Communist leader, in no uncertain terms.

AmdG

Dear Amado:

By the time Gorbachev came to the Vatican the Soviets were very well aware of the part the Pope played in the events leading up to Perestroika.

The most significant thing that came out of that meeting in the Vatican was the legalization of the Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine.

Gorbachev today speaks openly of the part John Paul II played in the collapse of the totalitarian system.


defreitas

General Jaruselski always used this as his excuse for proclaiming Marshal Law in Poland, that the Soviets would invade if he did not. It is debatable whether they would have considering their other commitment in Afghanistan.

Here's a review of the well-researched book that tells the story in detail:

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9701/reviews/weigel.html

I'm not endorsing the tone of the reviewer (who's writing his own JPII biography, so is likely to dump on existing ones). But it sketches out the thesis in the book.

For the record, I thought the book was pretty well done.

--Tim Cuprisin

Glory to God for all things!

Dear PaxTecum,

Pope John Paul II is a geat supporter of Our Lady of Fatima and her message. At Fatima in 1917 the Blessed Virgin explained the the rise and worldwide spread of Communism and Marxist inpired revolutions, wars, threat of nuclear wars, genocides and persecutions of Orthodox, Byzantine, Roman Catholic and other Christians were a divinely ordained punishment for the sins of mankind. Mankind must atone for these sins by prayer and penance. Our Lady also required that the Holy Father lead all the Catholic bishops in a collegial consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart. She promised that when the Holy Father fufilled her requests Russia would be "converted."

JP II believed that Our Lady of Fatima miraculously saved him from the Communist 1981 assasination attempt. After his recovery he made a pilgrimage to Fatima and blessed the work of the Blue Army and millions of other Catholics ( Roman, Byzantine, etc. ) to promote the Fatima message of repentane prayer and hope in God's mercy.

On March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul led the Catholic bishops in such a collegial consecration. By 1991 the Soviet Union had collapsed and all the persecuted Orthodox and Roman and Byzantine Catholic churches of Central and Eastern Europe were freed from Communist persecution.

In my opinion JP II's obedience and devotion to Christ and Our Lady of Fatima was the key to defeat of Communism in Eastern Europe.

Holy RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors, pray to God for us.

In my opinion JP II's obedience and devotion to Christ and Our Lady of Fatima was the key to defeat of Communism in Eastern Europe.

That is truly how it fell. Once JP II consecrated Russia and the world to the Theotokos, then Russia fell as Blessed Mother had said at Fatima.

As a side line, I recently heard some commentary on the fact that the Beetles caused Communism to fall. go figure! They said that the people high up in the goverment were so enamored with the Beetles that they wanted a life style like theirs.

The world will do anything to take the glory away from God. The Pope was truly the instrument taht God used to cause the fall of Russia.

Rose

In Latin America, Pope John Paul II made some eforts to eliminate some pro-communist elements from local churches. He has been criticized for being overtolerant with that kind of clergy in countries like Mexico and Cuba, like the time when he visited Mexico for the first time. He let the pro-marxist Bishops appointed by Paul VI under government pressure to stay in their charges and he even blesed a chapel inside the presidency building. (doing that in the land of the Cristeros who fought for Christianity against the tyrants).

But I believe this was due to a modus vivendi that already existed before his papacy started, and breaking this would have caused persecutions. However some authors say that the issue of Cuba, Mexico or Nicaragua must be seen in a context out of the OstPolitik and the Cold War, and that it was more a local problem, but I am not so sure about that. It's a matter of fact that now, at least in the main Mex City catholic Diocese those elements have been purged, that's why Cardinal Norberto Rivera has so much prestige and his name is mentioned among the possible successors of the Pope.

Is anyone aware if the Orthodox, especially the Russian Orthodox, ever complained about the consecration of Russia to Mary by the Pope? I mean the Pope did a very official thing with a bunch of bishops without, it seems, the participation of the biggest Church in Russia.

Is there a devotion to the Immaculate Heart somewhere among the Easterners, especially the Orthodox? I mean is there an official recognition of the special role Mary had in the fall of communism by which she would have a special veneration in this respect � like � I don�t know � a special liturgical devotion, or at least mention � of the Most Holy Theotokos, Freedom-Fighter for Russia?

Or perhaps the Orthodox would not be willing to do this because their freedom was achieved by an appeal through the Western Church?

Just fishing for knowledge in Christ always.

I decided to go looking for some articles to answer your question. Have found some interesting ones, but they are older aticles. My impression from the overall readings is that the Russian Orthodox Church at the time was so infiltrated by the government it was practically unable to do anything because of the subversive nature of so many within. So it had to come from the outside. Yet, they could not tear Jesus down, he was always present in our Eucharistic Lord and the soul of man. (I recently heard a news broadcater say that the Beetles were responcible for the fall of Communism- that everyone wanted what the Beetles had -- go figure!)
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In the March 9, 1992, edition of the New York Times, the following comments appeared:

My Partner, the Pope
Mikhail S. Gorbachev

I have carried on an intensive correspondence with Pope John Paul II since we met at the Vatican in December 1989. And I think ours will be an ongoing dialogue. The sense of mutual affection and understanding that resulted from our meeting is to be found in each of our letters. I cannot help but say that we share a desire to move forward and complete what we began together. Personally, I would be glad to take any opportunity to continue working with the Pope, and I am certain that this desire is mutual and will prove lasting.

It is very difficult to describe the relationship which took shape between the Pope and myself because the intuitive, personal element is always of great importance in such relationships. Simply put, when I was with him, I realized that the Pope had also played a role in what we came to call the new political thinking.

I am prepared to acknowledge that his speeches included many ideas that were in harmony with ours. The closeness between us of which I have just spoken was not only personal, but intellectual. What I have always held in high esteem about the Pope's thinking and ideas is their spiritual content, their striving to foster the development of a new world civilization.

Besides being Pope, John Paul II is also a Slav and, of course, that too was conducive to our mutual understanding. I remain convinced, however, that the closeness of spirit that was established between us was of much greater significance than the fact that we both are Slavs.

Now it can be said that everything that took place in Eastern Europe in recent years would have been impossible without the Pope's efforts and the enormous role, including the political role, he played in the world arena.

I think that the very significant steps we took in our own country played a part in developing relations with the Vatican; in particular, we understood the need for ties between the Russian Orthodox and Catholic churches. This facilitated the establishing of relations between our country and the Vatican. One of perestroika's especially important contributions in this regard was the passing of a law on freedom of religion. We restored the rights of the Russian Orthodox Church which had suffered greatly in the years of Stalinism.

At the same time, we also acknowledged the role of other religions�and nearly all the world's religions are to be found in our country. Here I am speaking of the process of liberation which is of enormous moral significance for all our citizens, both the religious and non-religious alike.

I am certain that the actions undertaken by Pope John Paul II are of immense significance. I have already spoken of his high spirituality. I was also struck by his human qualities. In a word, he is a great man: I would not wish to exaggerate, but it is my impression that the Pope is a great source of energy, and he elicits a deep sense of confidence. Pope John Paul II will play an enormous political role now that profound changes have occurred in European history.

We are currently in a transitional period when the human being, the human person, must truly have the decisive role in society. Everything that can serve to strengthen man's consciousness and spirit is today of much greater importance than ever before.

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"It was not just the Pope's hagiographers [idealizing biographers] who told us that his first pilgrimage [to Poland, in 1979] was the turning point. Skeptics who felt [Cardinal] Wojtyla was never a part of the resistance said everything changed as John Paul II brought his message across country to the Poles. And revolutionaries, jealous of their own, also look to the trip as the beginning of the end of Soviet rule. It took time; it took the Pope's support from Rome -- some of it financial; it took more trips, in 1983 and 1987. But the flame was lit. It would smolder and flicker before it burned from one end of Poland to the other. Millions of people spread the revolution, but it began with the Pope's trip home in 1979. As [Polish puppet] General [Wojciech] Jaruzelski said, 'That was the detonator.'"
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"Timothy Garton Ash put it this way, 'Without the Pope, no Solidarity. Without Solidarity, no Gorbachev. Without Gorbachev, no fall of Communism.'" [Solidarity is a once-illegal labor union in Poland.]
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http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=4090
Religion And The Fall Of Communism

http://www.therussiajournal.com/index.htm?obj=2193
Orthodoxy regains its �special role'

http://atheism.about.com/library/world/KZ/bl_RussiaOrthodoxHistory.htm
Russian Orthodox Church History
Although the Russian Orthodox Church did not play the activist role in undermining communism that the Roman Catholic Church played in Poland and elsewhere in Eastern Europe, it gained appreciably from the gradual discrediting of Marxist-Leninist ideology in the late Soviet period. In the mid-1980s, only about 3,000 Orthodox churches and two monasteries were active. As the grip of communism weakened in that decade, however, a religious awakening occurred throughout the Soviet Union. Symbolic gestures by President Gorbachev and his government, under the rubric of glasnost (see Glossary), indicated unmistakably that Soviet policy was changing. In 1988 Gorbachev met with Orthodox leaders and explicitly discussed the role of religion in the lives of their followers

http://www.antipas.org/news/news_2000/russia_2000/new_believers.html
The New Believers
(Rise of the Russian Orthodox Church)

http://www.sacredsites.com/december2001pages/russia.htm
Sacred Sites of Russia

http://www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0112a.html
WHY DOES PUTIN GO TO CHURCH?
Komsomolskaia pravda, 15 December 2001
quotations assembled by Alexander Gamov

A question for those who can answer. Has Russia been consecrated to the Immaculate heart of Mary? If so then why are some people like FR Nicholas Gruner and his people, claiming that it hasnt happened yet?

I am aware that Fr Gruner is in hot water with the Vatican right now, but still I have read some of what he wrote and the Padre claims that Russia was not specifically mentioned in any Papal consecration to date.

Whats the line on this?

Robert