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#74178 03/20/04 03:13 PM
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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us sinners!
Dear Father Mark,
Anointing oneself with Chrism is a bit strange. I discovered an analogous practice in Greece - people will receive small quantities of the Oil blessed on Great Wednesday for the Anointing of the Sick, take it home, and use it themselves when it seems appropriate.
Old Orthodoxy for anyone is admirable, regardless of one's ethnic affiliation. There was an interesting article in Tserkov about 10 years ago on this very point - I forget the author's name off-hand.
Regarding the unfortunate episode you mention as having had bearing on the situation in England, it seems odd that a group in Western Europe would not be related to Belaia Krinitsa (meaning Braila) rather than to Moscow; Belaia Krinitsa is normally understood to have the care of practically everything outside the former USSR, or maybe the former Russian Empire. But perhaps it is not too late for a conversation with either Archbishop Sofrony or Metropolitan Leonty?
The only Old Ritualists united to New Rite hierarchies of whom I have the slightest experience are those associated with the parish in Erie, Pennsylvania - and they are certainly exercising a positive influence within the Russian Church Abroad. On the other hand, they seem much more close-minded than the Old Ritualist Orthodox Church - this may be due to their origin within the Pomortsi; I simply don't know. I have no experience at all of the Iedinoviertsy inside Russia, or whatever is left of them, so I have no opinion.

But to the practical question you raise, I really would suggest presenting the situation either to the Metropolitan of Beliaia Krinitsa, (probably through Archbishop Sofrony - although England is closer to Romania than to Oregon!) or to the Church Abroad. There are functioning Old Ritualist monasteries in Romania, which is already an attractive thought.

Prostite menia Khrista radi.

Incognitus

#74179 03/20/04 06:30 PM
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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon us. Amen.

Dear Incognitus,

The Chrism to which I refer is actually the myron rather than the oil blessed during holy week.
St Andrei of Ufa annointed himself as sign that he already considered himself a valid hierarch and as one senior to any present at his union with the Novozybkovtsy, his own orders took precedence! St Amvrosii of Belayakrinitsa didn't seem to worry about such formalities.

Regarding Moscow and Braila, you are right about their spheres of influence, but that was flouted by my former bishop. Sadly, I am now 'persona non grata' amongst all Belayakrinitsy, thanks to one hierarch. Also, in the past, when things were still positive, it looked like any relationship with Vladyka Sofronii and the Oregonovtsy would involve decamping to the States. I have a monastic kellion, bought with episcopal blessing here in Great Britain.

The spiritually agonising question for me, is whether I can be true to Old Orthodoxy' in edinoverie with a New Rite bishop. I should add that my downfall in 'Old Believerdom' was the refusal to see only Old Rite Christians as the sole bearers of Orthodoxy. Recently, I had the blessing of meeting a very holy and wonderful bishop of the True Orthodox Church who was very happy to receive me under his omophor, leaving me free to continue my Old Rite monastic life. My head, and indeed my soul, are now spinning with conflicting thoughts.

I ask all of my brothers and sisters on the forum to pray for the Lord to show me the way forward.

Bog da prostit i pomiluiyet - Prosti mya gryeshnago.

Spasi Khristos -
Inok Mark.

#74180 03/20/04 07:09 PM
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Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon us. Amen.

Dear Father Mark,
Yes, I DO realize that the Chrism to which you refer is actually the myron rather than the oil blessed during holy week! I said the two situations were analogous (which they are), not identical (which they are not).
Whether somebody considers himself a valid hierarch is a small matter - no one may be the judge in his own case. Saint Ambrose was given the choice to accept Chrismation or be received by a simple profession of faith; he accepted Chrismation of his own free will (which leaves open the possibility that he was moved by the awareness that if he had not done so, it would have been far more difficult for many of his future flock).
I can well understand why Bielaia Krinitsa might hesitate, having already burned their collective fingers in the case you mention. Nevertheless, with patience and prayer I would hope that they can recognize that the Lord does not desire the death of a sinner, but rather that he should repent and live. In any event, nothing will be lost by having a conversation with one or another of the hierarchs.
Can you be true to Old Orthodoxy in communion with a Bishop who uses the Niconian rite? That's for you to decide; my answer is affirmative. The Church is rich in such matters. But if you do not see the Old Rite Christians as the exclusive bearers of Orthodoxy (and neither do I, obviously), then it is preferable not to seek an affiliation with people who insist on that very point. Myself, I would find it impossible and absurd to repudiate Saint Seraphim of Sarov, to offer only one name.
Whether it is advisable, or desirably, to become involved with the Greek Old Calendarists is a separate question. As an Old Calendarist myself, I am only too painfully aware that they have a deplorable tendency to cause trouble and dissension. But you probably know more about that than I do.
That leaves my other suggestion: the Church Abroad. They are good people, and in many ways highly admirable. Metropolitan Laurus is a peaceful, spiritual and approachable man (and he prefers to stay as much as possible in the monastery, which says something quite good about him).
[There is, of course, the Greek-Catholic option. But I have certainly not discerned that you are ready to consider such an idea! Nor am I seeking to urge it upon you.]
That is all I wish to offer this evening, both because it is getting late and because some matters should really be discussed in private, if at all. I am careful where my own anonymity is concerned, but I have reason to think that you and I have a friend in common. I shall ask him to put us in direct touch with one another.

Prostite menia Khrista radi.
Incognitus

#74181 03/21/04 05:44 PM
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The Old Believers of Romania are originaly Rusian who emigrated right? Are there native Romanian elements now? Do they try to bring Romanians to their Church? Do they get along with other Orthodox jurisdictions such as the Old Calendarists?

#74182 03/22/04 04:12 AM
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The Lipoveni - Romanian Old Believers - are indeed the descendents of Russian refugees. They are very self contained and tend not to mix with other Orthodox Christians very much.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

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