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I have a question about what the Chotki must look like...must it be made only the one way with knots?

I have found that using the Chotki comes so much more natural to me than praying the Rosary, if that makes any sense. At first, I tried using one of my Rosaries to count, but while it worked out well for counting my Jesus Prayers, it didn't work so well wrapped around my wrist. At first I was too self-conscience to wear it anyway, so it didn't matter, but eventually I found that wearing something reminded me to pray often. Looked at Chotki on the net, found some inexpensive, but even those are out of my budget for a while. So then I went and found instructions on the web on how to make one. Knots, I thought, how hard can they be...wow! What a dumb question. I got the hand part of the knots, but then came the weaving part and I was lost in a large mess of string. I gave up and made a 33 prayer one, in black beads. Worked well at first, but it looked like a regular bracelet and I started to forget I had it on. Then I figured out a way to make a bead cross and had the tassle...no more problem, I was remembering to pray more often. Beads worked for me, didn't work for my son, who kept dropping his and breaking the beads(plastic no less...how do you break a plastic bead?) So back to the drawing board and after a day with my crochet hooks and various types of thread, I figured out a stitch to use that feels enough like a knot to make counting easy, though they tend to be a bit longer than those made the traditional way. My fifty has to be wrapped around my wrist twice, my thirty three is a bit loose.

My question is...is it okay to make Chotkis in this fashion or do knots have to be used? Is it a matter of what ever works, just so long as constant prayer is the focus? I am sure someone will get offeneded if they see it because they won't consider it 'real', but will it be because it offends them personally, or because there is only one way to make one.

BTW, I have seen the tape about how to make a Chotki, but we don't have a TV or VCR, so I had to use a website that had instructions, pictures and a Real Media video. The problem wasn't with the instructions I found, but with my own inability to handle the knots...with the crochet hook I can make one of fifty 'beads' in about thirty minutes, including cross and tassle. With my fingers alone, I am lost.

Vie

Dear Vie, in the days of the Desert Fathers they used woven palms, etc. for their chotkis. It doesn't really matter what it is made of, but the general traditional convention is to make them out of something natural, made by God, not man-made materials.

I prefer the 33 knot with the knots made out of wool and two wooden beads with the cross in between the beads at the end which goes over the wrist. I pretty much wear it all the time. This one worked for me because nothing was hanging down and I could do manual work and not have to worry about something dangling getting in the way. The 50 and 100 knot chotkis would eventually unravel and hang down.

There is no strict rule about making a chotki, you can use whatever works.

One will even find chotki made of wooden beads coming out of Russia, so of course if they did it first it is all kosher.

I guess the important thing is not what your chotki is made of, but that you use it for prayer. If you wear it and it reminds you to pray, then it is doing its job.

Dave

LadyHawke:

I bought one from Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Ellwood City, PA, a number of years ago. Over the years it has stretched somewhat, though it is still tightly woven. I have to wrap it around my wrist 4 times--it is 100 knots with no wooden beads or tassel. It also seems to have larger knots than many others I have seen. The cross is woven as an integral part of the whole.

In Christ,

BOB

I know a man who has collected a variety of prayer ropes (particularly from the Carpathian mountains) and they are made of all kinds of materials.

Like many others, I am originally from the RC Church and I used to know how to make the simple rosaries to given away. They were made with cheap plastic beads and a special, but very simple knot between the Our Father beads and the 10 beads.


Now I use that special knot for my prayer ropes. I get simple cord (on sale and with a coupon at fabric stores) and I make 100 knots for myself and for adults. I like to make 33 knots for children -- it's a reminder that Jesus lived to be 33 years.
:p

Dear Monastic Beginner,

When I visited a monastary for confession, the Elder gave me a hand knotted chotki with a bead. It has 33 knots. It was interesting to find out that when the monastics knot each knot, they also say a prayer, so that the whole rope is infused with prayer!

In Christ,
Alice

Thank you, Alice.
Yes, I pray when I make the prayer ropes.
However, I do understand that are specific prayers for making the "official" prayer ropes from black wool. I usually pray the Jesus Prayer as I go along.
:p

I found myself saying the Jesus Prayer as I crocheted each knot...the day that I was trying to work out how to do and then actually made a few that I thought would be okay, I estimated between three and four hundred prayers, definately a productive day for me

Thank you everyone for your posts...I had tried a different variety of yarns and threads to get what I wanted and ended up with a four ply cotton thread, so I guess all natural materials work out best for a number of reasons. And I didn't realize that one was supposed to pray while working on the knots, but I did find myself saying the Jesus prayer with each 'knot' I crochet...I averaged quite a few that day so even if I didn't get a rope that I liked, it was still a very productive day

I managed to ask the Pastor today what he thought, he told me what many of you have said...it's not the rope itself that really matters, it's that I pray with it. I could have one that is made perfectly, but if I never pray with it, it's worthless.
So now my son wants a hundred fifty one...when I finish it, I may as well do the three hundred, I know he'll want one of those next...

I personally think Jesus was very pleased at your efforts. After all He is the one that gave you the gift of creativity.

Now this one may really sound different. My husband teaches 7th grade ECCD and the kids taking responcibility for prayer is a big part of that year. So I decided it would be good for them to make prayer ropes. I talked to the head of our program and she gave me the OK to go ahead, though it isn't 100% natural. You know the chains like dog tags were put on. Well we used that only a larger version. Then my daughter spent time with the kids teaching them to do a half knot. So we litterally tied bracelts, each one of those beads with twine,so the bead stuck out in the center of the rope, each one having 33 beads. They really came out nice, father blessed them, and the kids have a stylish braclet to wear, and they do wear them, that they use for the Jesus Prayer. They just sit loosley on their wrists. This way no matter where they are they are reminded of the call to continual prayer, and it affords them the opportunity to pray with a rope without necessarily being noticed at school, but it also gives them the opportunity to share the prayer at their level with their friends.

Rose

Rose,
What a neat idea!
Tammy

Can any of the forum members suggest places to purchase chotki not made of wool? I have found a couple internet sites, but because of a nasty allergy to wool I have not located any to my liking that would not send me into a frenzy of hives.

Try Slovak Shop [stores.ebay.com] on eBay. I have purchased a chotki from them. They have various sizes of wooden chotkis imported from the Carpathian mountains. They are strung on nylon "fishing line" as I call it. Another site, which I have not purchased from, is The Slovak Shop [slovakshop.com] . They seem to be comparable to the ones at the eBay site.

I eventually decided to start purchasing beads from Michaels and making my own. It's cheaper.

Some day I hope to start a home business making and selling chotkis and rosaries, but I don't have the start-up capital yet to build inventory. And I haven't quite figured out yet how to make chotkis strong enough - my 6 year old has broken the cross off his twice! :p

Excellent ideas!!!

Besides Michael's, Jo-Ann's Fabrics has a wide variety of cords -- often on sale AND YOU CAN USE THE COUPONS FOR A BIGGER DISCOUNT, i.e., if you use the 50% or 40% coupon you can get, for example a cord that's normally $1.00 a yard for 50 cents a yard -- but it must be in one cut!!

This sounds funny to me , but there is a cord called "rattail cord" which makes medium to large knots and keeps a shine for quite a while even with continuous use. It's in the ribbon section at Jo-Ann's. Just an idea!!!
:p

I believe that the Byzantine Carmelite Sisters in Aliquippa, PA (St. George the Great-Martyr Parish) make chotki from materials other than wool and that they are available for a small donation.