www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Chotki

Dear Zeeker,

I have made chotki out of rattail, and it works rather well. (In fact I have not been able to find any wool that is think enough for me to tie.) You can find many Orthodox monasteries which sell them from synthetic, non-wool materials. Or you can check places like www.easternchristian.com [easternchristian.com]

My mom has a few wooden chotki imported from the Carpathians for sale. If you're interested, send me a private message.

Dave

Tammy wrote
Some day I hope to start a home business making and selling chotkis and rosaries, but I don't have the start-up capital yet to build inventory. And I haven't quite figured out yet how to make chotkis strong enough - my 6 year old has broken the cross off his twice! [Razz]

I think you start getting start-up capital selling one or two at a time. My daughter started doing her stuff when she was in 7th grade if I remember right, she will be 21 in Nov. and is a Massage Therapist. I bought her a book and a ball of hemp(for jewelry not smoking :p ) to make necklaces with, actually I think it was because she saw an anklet she wanted. She does lovely work, her knots are exceptional, she is so creative, not work like you see sold so cheap in the stores. I think one of the nicest peices is a necklace she makes with a wooden Antiochiean Cross on it. Then when she made the braclets with the kids, she had been making a similar braclet just for general wear, but it put a whole new meaning to her work. So the metal part of the beads show through and you just pull the beads through your fingers as you pray. I guess that is what I wanted to say, just take the first step, and Jesus will make the way.

At the craft stores they have some line like fishing line which they use for jewelry that should help to hold the crosses on. GO FOR IT!

Rose

Dear Friends,

Yes, there is no hobby or cottage industry that is more rewarding or relaxing than making prayer-ropes!

I think one way of "standing out" in this "market" is to make different kinds of prayer ropes.

For example, one could make and advertise the Celtic prayer rope which was a 33 bead counter with a Celtic Cross.

One could make the Western "Pater Noster" prayer rope which was one long rope NOT joined at the ends.

One end had a Cross and the other end a tassel. These came in either 50 or 150 bead sets.

It was St Basil the Great who first laid down the rule that a knotted cord was to be 100 knots divided into groups of 25 with another, divider knot or bead.

In the 17th century, the Russians began making their prayer ropes out of leather and differently - one could make them as a regular wool chotki though.

On this the "Old Believer" chotki, there is a large knot after the first 12 knots for the Apostles. Then follow 38 knots for the weeks and days our Lord spent in the Womb of His Most Holy Mother, ending with another divider knot.

Then follow 33 knots for our Lord's 33 years spent on earth, ending with a divider knot.

Then follow 17 knots for the 17 prophets.

Above the Cross can be three knots, as occurs on the Old Believer "Lestovka."

One could also make Rosary Chotki's or 50 or 150 knot chotki's or komvoschinia divided every 10 with a red divider knot for purposes of praying the Rosary.

And this would be the closest to the original form of the Western Rosary!

And then one could make 300 knot chotki where 300 Prayers represent one of the 20 portions of the Psalter in Jesus Prayers.

Alex

Dear Dave, just as a hint generally coarser wool (less than 46s) works better to make a Chotki, as fine wool while much less rough is harder to work with, to card, spin, etc. by hand because of the fiber size.

The wooden Carpathian chotkis are very nice. My wife always gets comments on her wooden "bracelet" and gets some very interesting responses when she explains what it is.

Oh I just love Alex's history lessons

I am so glad I asked this question, everyone's responses have been great and now I am no longer worried that I may not have a 'correct' chotki.

The first one I made was with 33 black beads and I put a beaded cross and tassle on the end. The idea of making it with wooden beads is very interesting and Rose, I love the idea that you and your daughter came up with as well. My kids love those ball chain and hemp bracelets and my daughter would probably love to have one made this way.

Vie

CIX!

I got a Russian princess friend to do one like this, with a knot cross at the end... exactly in the form of a western rosary, with a bead for the Our Fathers, for my mother (who uses it for both).

The Russian princess (who's a ROCORite) when handing the finished product to me, asked what configuration that was, as she's never seen it before. You should've seen her face when I told her that was the western Rosary

Just my two obols!

in Domino,

Edward

Edward...
I bet her look was priceless...

Vie

There are so many Russian princesses running around... Is she the one that wrote about the Jesus Prayer?

Are there any sites with instructions on making Chotki?

Dear Edward,

In actual fact, I once saw a photo of St Seraphim's relics - and his prayer rope or Lestovka was shaped in exactly that same way - divided every ten knots with a larger bead.

In fact, in England the larger beads or "Our Father" beads were called the "gaudies." When you are in London, you know that the street near St Paul's Cathedral or "Paternoster Row" was where the medieval guild of "Rosary-Makers" or "Paternosterers" had their shops and would display their wares outside the cathedral and other churches.

The Old Believers of Russia have ALWAYS had their "Bogarodychnaya Lestovka" or the "Prayer Rope of the Mother of God."

It had 150 small "steps" or babotchki divided every ten with a larger step.

So the practice of praying 150 Hail Mary's this way goes back a long time in Eastern Church history - the 8th century in fact when it was first mentioned as an ascetical exercise.

Today on Mt. Athos, monks are obliged to make a full prostration to the floor at each "Hail Mary" as they pray up to 150 a day.

I like the idea of having a prayer rope with 150 knots for the Jesus Prayer - a true "Jesus Psalter" even though this is the name given to the old English Psalter of the Name of Jesus especially used during the Recusant times of the persecutions.

Alex

Dear Rose,

Thank you!

It is said that there are people who speak what they know, and others who know what they speak.

I think I'm the former . . .

I've also seen small wooden fishes with beads on them for purposes of praying produced by the Russian Church.

These are often given to people in hospital and the fish symbol is offered as a meditation on the Name of Jesus etc.

This is a version of the "prayer stick" where notches were made on a long piece of wood for purposes of counting prayers.

Alex

http://www.wattfamily.org/prayerope.html

I found a video from Ligh n Life Publications that shows you how to make a prayer rope.
I bought mine from www.easternchristian.com [easternchristian.com]
Very nice Eastern Catholic/Orthodox Supply Store.

In Christ+
Daniel

http://www.light-n-life.com/shopping/order_product.asp?ProductNum=HOWT179

Hmm thank you Daniel for bringing this up again - it seems to have started whilst I was away.

Actually I now have 3

A wooden beads one which I found in Lourdes - very simple and plain - just 33 beads - no dividers and a plain squared
wooden cross . This one lives in the armrest on my side of the car

A lovely black woollen one given by a dear friend

And one from a Serbian Orthodox Church made with Job's tears seeds - now that has a wonderful feel as you use it - it is made with a cross covering the fastening of the cord again just 33 beads

Since the day I dropped my black one in Church [ an RC one !!} and I had to explain to a little old lady what it was I will admit that it has not left the house !

I take my hat off to those who can make such wonderful things - they just demand to be used for prayer .