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While I personally hold Theodore of Mopsuestia in the highest esteem (as does the Assyrian/Ancient Church of the East), I do have to question the wisdom of quoting him in support of a position as was done previously in this thread. I say this because the Fathers assembled at the Second Council of Constantinople condemned Theodore�s writings, while he himself was declared heretical and anathematized (subsequently, albeit reluctantly, affirmed by Pope Vigilius). As far as I am aware, this anathema has (unfortunately) never been lifted.
~Isaac
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Originally posted by Father David:
"When we say 'and with your spirit' we are not referring to the soul, but to the grace of the Holy Spirit, by whom those to whom he has been imparted have access to the priesthood.�
-Theodore of Mopsuestia, Homily 15
The meaning, expressed here by Theodore, and also found in other Fathers, is that the priest does not preside in his own person, or by his own powers, but by the grace of the Holy Spirit given him in ordination. I have heard �And with your spirit� explained as an (archaic) Semitic way of referring to the person. Others see in it a kind of clericalism. The Latin is usually, �Et cum spiritu tuo.� explicitly using the pronoun �with.� Greek more often has �kai to pneumati sou,� without the pronoun, �And [peace] to your spirit,� though we occasionally find �kai meta tou pneumatos sou.� as in the preanaphoral dialogue, responding here to the Scriptural greeting (2 Corinthians 13:13). Thanks for the help, this quote did the job. David, Byzantine Catholic and Carmelite pre-novice (postulant)
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Dear St Mary of Egypt,
Actually, we do NOT say "God bless you" to priests and bishops as it is their privilege to bless us and not we them.
What we should always say to a priest or bishop, even on the telephone when we begin a conversation is, "Bless, Father or Vladyko/Despota!" The Old Believers say, "Bless me a sinner, Father or Holy Vladyko!"
And then the priest or bishop imparts his blessing - when in person, we fold our hands over in an "X" shape and extend them to receive the priest's blessing over our palms - he will then place his hand on our open hands at which time we venerate it with a kiss.
We do this when we end the conversation as well, receiving his blessing.
But never "God bless you" to a priest or bishop.
Alex
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Alex, Thank you for setting me straight. I learn something new all the time  Hopefully Father hasn't taken an offence. I certainly didn't mean anything wrong.
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DavidB:
My apologies, thank you for the clarification. I also apologize for the negative tone of my post, it was late where I was and I was tired. I just get so disappointed sometimes when I see such attachment to bad liturgy at all levels of the the Latin Church in America. I wonder if a "reform of the reform" might ever be effected against such inertia.
Being that I have now been in an Eastern parish for two years and am seriously considering changing Rites, perhaps I should leave all the Latin problems behind me. The problem is that most of our friends and all of our family are still Roman Rite, so I care for their sake.
Father David, thank you for your most informative post!
Doug
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Originally posted by Padraig:
DavidB:
My apologies, thank you for the clarification. I also apologize for the negative tone of my post, it was late where I was and I was tired. I just get so disappointed sometimes when I see such attachment to bad liturgy at all levels of the the Latin Church in America. I wonder if a "reform of the reform" might ever be effected against such inertia.
Being that I have now been in an Eastern parish for two years and am seriously considering changing Rites, perhaps I should leave all the Latin problems behind me. The problem is that most of our friends and all of our family are still Roman Rite, so I care for their sake.
Father David, thank you for your most informative post!
Doug Doug, no need to apologize. I am sick of the bad liturgy too, also the irreverence that goes on sometimes (long story). I am doing what I can, starting with myself. Maybe I can be an example. I too care about the liurgy in the Latin Church as, even though I am a Byzantine Catholic, I am in formation with a Latin order. David, Byzantine Catholic and Carmelite pre-novice (postulant)
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I know this is rather crass, but at some point you just want to tell those people to shut up and get over it because it's gonna be "And with your spirit," and there ain't nuthin' they can do 'bout it!
Logos Teen
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