www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Ex Cathedra

Im curious, how exactly can "ex cathedra" be justified? It seems that in the early Church, the Patriarch of Rome never made infallible statements outside of councils. So how can "ex cathedra" have foundings in the early Church?

Thanks!

The concept of ex cathedra teachings is derived pretty much as follows: infalliblity is a charism of the Church, but it may be exercised by the bishops acting in council. Thus, the teachings of Ecumenical Councils are held to be infallible. However, in consultation with the bishops at large, the pope may exercise the "extraordinary magisterium" of infalliblity where is is really acting on behalf of the Church and the bishops as spokesman. Note that this has only been used twice in the history of the Church and most theologians believe it will never be used again. BTW, the Tome of Leo comes pretty close to this as far as the early Church is concerned.

Fr. Deacon Edward

One must read the relevant sections of Pastor Aeternus (Vatican I) with great care and pay much understanding to the background in order to understand what this means. I won't attempt to go into it here (try Tillard's book The Bishop of Rome for a starter).

The expression ex cathedra, however, can be predicated of any bishop - it refers to the teaching which the bishop gives in the most formal setting possible - when he is seated on the episcopal throne of his cathedral (presumably in the apse) and explaining the Faith. This in turn derives from the Jewish background - the "seat of Moses".

Incognitus

Thank you so much!!!

So when the Pope speaks "ex cathedra", he consults the bishops beforehand?

Thanks again!

Dear Drewmeister,
No need to thank me. As to your question, no bishop is expected to say anything of major doctrinal importance without taking counsel with his brothers in the episcopate - and that principle certainly applies to the Bishop of Rome.

Incognitus

Oh, thats very interesting. Good to know. I also read in Pastor Aeternus that the bishops tell the Pope what problems of faith matters are happening in their diocese, so it is kinda like meeting in a council, except its less official.

Thanks again, both of you!

My understanding is that when the Pope has spoken ex cathedra, there has been consensus with the bishops.

One would certainly assume (and hope) so. I very much doubt that any serious person would issue a possibly infallible statement purely of his own whim.

Incognitus

it is the belief of the Roman Church (and I know that here is where a lot of difficulties come in) that the Pope is infallible in his own person.
That was the teaching of Vatican Council I based on earlier belief in an infallible teaching authority in the Church.
As you perhaps know that Vatican I was cut short due to the military situation in Italy at the time.
Vatican Council II has expanded the understaning of this charism of infallibility to a more collegial understanding.
Here is where a further clarification can come about.
Obviously when teaching that the Pope had the charism of infallibility in his person they did not mean that the Pope can speak ex cathedra as a private person, He must always speak as head of the Church and in union with the historic teaching of the Church.
Any further additions or thoughts welcome.
Stephanos I

By the way. The teaching that the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, was really setting a limit on the Pope. ( Im sure that will surprise some). Before Vatican I it was unclear, people attributed everything that the Pope said was infallible. Not so! 1> It had to be "ex cathedra" (declared as explicitly a matter that all must believe.) 2. It concerned faith or morals.

Stephanos writes that "it is the belief of the Roman Church (and I know that here is where a lot of difficulties come in) that the Pope is infallible in his own person".

My apologies for contradicting, but that interpretation, while common, is inaccurate. Pastor Aeternus refers specifically to that infallibility which the Savior willed His Church to have. What is at issue is the infallibility of the Church, and that distinction is important.

Incognitus

Praise and Glory to God forever!

Vatican I set limits on the doctrine of papal infallibility. Prior to the Council, there was a dispute about whether papal infallibilty includes all teachings by the Pope or only certain teachings.

The Council declared that it is only when the Pope speaks ex cathedra - from the Chair of Peter - to define certain truths, that the truths are recognized as part of the Catholic faith. These are dogmatic truths, the understanding of which have been developed over time by the Bishops and prominent theologians.

In other words, papal infallibility is very limited and does not include everything a Pope says or writes.

Blessed Pope John XXIII once said: "I'm only infallible when I speak ex cathedra - and I will never speak ex cathedra!"

JP

One of these was in 1854, when the Immaculate Conception dogma was proclaimed by Pope Piux IX.

The Bishops of the United States had made a similar proclamation in 1846.

From the Archdiocesan website:

http://www.archbalt.org/our-history/ordinaries-detail.cfm?customel_datapageid_999=2232

In March 4, 1834, Samuel Eccleston was appointed Coadjutor of Baltimore by Pope Gregory XVI. ... At the age of 34, he is the youngest archbishop in the History of the Archdiocese of Baltimore.

Archbishop Eccleston presided over the Third (1837), Fourth (1840), Fifth (1843), Sixth (1846) and Seventh (1849) Provincial Councils of Baltimore.

It was during the Sixth Provincial Council of Baltimore that the twenty-three attending bishops declared that

"The Blessed Virgin conceived without sin" was to be the Patroness of the United States.

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

I would like to add my personal understanding of the charism of infallibility, limited as it is from being a mere layman.

Being God, only Christ is infallible!

However, He granted ("delegated") that charism of infallibility to His Church, which He Himself established. Now, how then does the Church exercise or "express" such infallibility?

I think this is where the East and the West significantly differ.

Catholics believe that the Church established by Christ subsists in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church (of which the Roman Church represents the majority) believes that there are 3 organs in the Church through which she can exercise the charism of infallibility:

(1) through an Ecumenical Council, under the presidency of the Pope;

(2) through the Pope in union (consultation) with the Bishops throughout the world; and

(3) through the Pope, singly, when declaring ex cathedra certain truths about faith and morals.

[Correct me, if I am wrong, but I think the East (Orthodox Churches) believes that Church infallibility can be exercised only by and through an Ecumenical Council.]

"Papal Infallibility," which is No. (3) above and which was a dogmatic declaration of Vatican I and affirmed by Vatican II, obviously and understandably has taken all the flak!

As has been said earlier, "papal infallibility" is a negative definition of the Pope's authority and is, therefore, self-limiting! Thus far, there has been only 2 ex cathedra declarations of the Popes.

Amado

One could, I suppose, innocently inquire just what the purpose is of having a Pope able to give infallible pronouncements on his own bat if this has only occurred twice in two thousand years.

One could also point out that there is a qualitative difference between the Seven Councils and the other General Councils recognized by the West.

And one could point out that the truths of the faith are not determined by numerical majorities - if they were we would all be now be either Arians or Nestorians, take your pick.

Incognitus

Canon 749.1
"By virtue of his office, the Supreme Pontiff possesses infalibility in teaching when as the supreme pastor and teacher of all the christian faithful, who strengthens his brothers and sisters in the faith, he proclaims by definitive [b]act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held. [/b]
Perhaps the encyclical "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" fulfilled the criterion of an infallible statement? Comments.