www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Married Bishops?

Metropolitan Anthony (Gergianakis) of Dardanellion (San Francisco) is for marriage of the upper echelon of the Church. This is from an interview this past August in the Greek publication "Ethnos." In the interview Met. Anthony says, "In the early days of the Church there was a tradition for married Bishops. Why not return [to that tradition]? The reasons that mandated celibacy for Bishops are not canonical, only practical. This had to do with the matter of inheritance. Who owns, for example, the [Church's] property. The Bishop? Or his children? Thus, today, the same practical reasons dictate reform of that anachronistic canon."

This same subject is being discussed in some of the various Orthodox Catholic discussion groups. So far, there is no adverse reaction by those who have posted replies. Personally I am in favor of it.

OrthoMan

I would agree with ordaining SOME married men to bishoprics if it were in the best interest of the church.

They could wear purple klobuks like Bishop Basil Losten, since they aren't monks!

But for the most part I'm against it. Bishops are too busy, and we need that monastic connection. We don't want the church to become too much of a reflection of modern society--"here is bishop joe, his wife episcopa sandy, but their 3 kids are in daycare since she has to work to support them."

anastasios

Very few Orthodox bishops actually live a monastic life**, because the ministry of the episcopacy actually militates against it. Let us face it, looking like a monk and being a monk are very different things!

The tradition of married bishops is the original tradition. Let us (Orthodox) return to it, while certainly allowing celibate bishops.

Finally, we (Orthodox) already have canonical Orthodox bishops, scattered here and there. Their flocks embrace them and that should be the critical litmus test.

Bill

**Monastic in the true Orthodox or Athonite sense.

If these bishops think they are too busy, let them trade jobs with me. They could have two wives and still have more free time than alot of people.

K.

Quoted from the "Lives of the Holy Apostles"
Publisher: Holy Apostles Convent
translated from the Greek Synaxaristes
and Russian Menology of St. Dimitri of Rostov

"He (Apostle Peter) took to wife the daughter of Aristobulus, the brother of the holy Apostle Barnabas, and begat children of her: a son and a daughter" (p. 3)

"Andrew, Simon's (Peter) brother, disdaining the vanity of this tulmultuous world, chose to remain a celibate" (p. 3)

Let each discern on his own, through the grace of the Holy Spirit, according to the gifts bestowed on him by our Heavenly Father.

In ICXC
Ality

One thing at a time, folks.

Before we (Eastern Catholics) even begin to talk about married bishops, let us pray and work for a full restoration of our tradition of a married diocesan priesthood.

Anthony

Having met some gentlemanly conservative Anglican bishops who were married, I was impressed. Though objectively they probably weren't bishops, they were small-o orthodox. Of all the apostolic Churches, I believe the Polish National Catholics are unique in that they have Anglican-derived rules on this (they used to be somewhat affiliated with the Anglicans, 1946-1977): priests can get married and bishops can be married.

Anthony's right.

Married bishops? It can be done — it may take the eighth ecumenical council to decide such, since the Trullo/Quinisext Councils decided on the present setup all those centuries ago — but is the risk of spiritual harm from culture shock to the Orthodox world worth it? (The same question re: priestly celibacy among the Latins.) The same applies for the questions of clergy marrying or widowed clergy remarrying. Possible, but perhaps not opportune.

http://oldworldrus.com

Metropolitan Anthony suggests the election of married Bishops and Metropolitans to begin first in America and then to be followed, after it is approved by the body of Othodoxy, in other parts of the world.
The Metropolitan went on to say, "In America the climate does not favor the unmarried. In America, many young men do not stay single and very soon we will face a serious problem.
America's needs, of course, should not determine the position of the entire [Orthodox] Church."

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: vito ]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I was saddened to see the Bishop's proposal for a reinstigation of the married episcopate. Many in the U.S. support that idea because they have failed to encourage the lay ministry of monastics in the United States. I do not believe that it is the lack of calling for men and women to live the celibate lifestyle but the lack of the church to support (both in the Roman Catholic/Byzantine Catholic, and eastern Orthodox jurisdictions)these callings.

I once heard a very wise slavic prelate state that one of the causes of not only divorce but multiple divorces in the US is the church not supporting the lay vocations. As a result many men and women who are called to the lay vocation of monastics do not heed that call but rather end up in marriages they believe are expected by both society and the church. These marriages fail and they try and try again only to fail because it is not their calling from God.

Before we expand the married clergy (which I strongly believe in) to include the Bishops, let both the Catholic and Orthodox churches in the US once again start actively promoting our lay vocations. If we had a large male monastic community to choose our Bishops from, we would have excellent spiritual leadership. Perhaps it is time to get away from the Professional Administrator we have had our episcopate evolve into and instead we should look for spiritual leaders who can and will have the courage to maintain orthodox beliefs and practices.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thomas:
[QB] lay ministry of monastics in the United States.

Monks live a conserated life. They are not lay ministries, they take sacred vows.

I do not believe that it is the lack of calling for men and women to live the celibate lifestyle but the lack of the church to support (both in the Roman Catholic/Byzantine Catholic, and eastern Orthodox jurisdictions)these callings.

I agree that we should acively encourage, promote and support monastic vocations.

I once heard a very wise slavic prelate state that one of the causes of not only divorce but multiple divorces in the US is the church not supporting the lay vocations. As a result many men and women who are called to the lay vocation of monastics do not heed that call but rather end up in marriages they believe are expected by both society and the church. These marriages fail and they try and try again only to fail because it is not their calling from God.

Another reason is contraception, sexual immorality, greed/slefishness, inability to make commitments, and a radical redefinition of the relationship of men and women since WWII, i.e. feminism, civil rights, equality, take your pick, but don't romanticise about how if we only had those people in monasteries, then everything would be ok, because the issue is more complex than that.

Before we expand the married clergy (which I strongly believe in) to include the Bishops, let both the Catholic and Orthodox churches in the US once again start actively promoting our lay vocations. If we had a large male monastic community to choose our Bishops from, we would have excellent spiritual leadership. Perhaps it is time to get away from the Professional Administrator we have had our episcopate evolve into and instead we should look for spiritual leaders who can and will have the courage to maintain orthodox beliefs and practices.

Sure totally agree, I guess you are of the opinion that the only person who can be qualified to spiritually lead people on a episcopal level is a celibate? The first Bishop of Rome had a wife and two kids. I am upset when people take holy ideals and insist that everyone must meet them. That IS NOT Orthodox traditon! St Paul clearly indicates that "each of us should give in good measure with the gifts received" Pauline theology is rich in the message that everyone has a unique calling and we should not force one to meet the standard of another.

Yes, our Churches should take first things first, that is a given, but who are you, or anyone else, to tell someone the measure in which the Holy Spirit has graced them?

First, lets get the priests allowed the choice, and next lets work towards educating people true teachings. It would be unwise and a disaster to just do something so radical as a married episcopate without any education. But coneptually, why would you be opposed to it? Do you not trust the working of the Holy Spirit in our Synods, should they deem, God Forbid, a married priest, worthy of the episcopal title. Maybe he is a man of such profound spiritual strength that he can manage a family and a flock at the same time!

In
ICXC
Ality
[B][/B]

Metropolitan Philip of the Antiochian Orthodox Church in North America also supports allowing Bishops to marry.

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: OrthoJustin ]

Couldn't help but read thru some of your conversations about whether priests, specifically bishops should be allowed to marry...I had a long chat with a Byzantine Catholic Priest concerning this matter...to sum up our conversation...it is all about money and the Roman Rite priest were upset that the Byzantine Catholic Priests were allowed to be married and they weren't. He had told me that the expense and inconvenience of having to move a family of 2,4,6 or 8, was expensive and hard on the family. In addition, stressful.

I for one am an advocate of it. I was raised that one of the greatest gifts God has given us is the ability to reproduce...so why does the church require their leaders to abstain from it. In addition, the pastor of my church back home in PA that baptized my family and me, was married with 2 children. He is actually still with us today in a nursing home in Ohio. He was a wonderful pastor. Some of the Roman priests are strong advocates of they can not be successful leaders if they have families. I guess they are somewhat brain washed to think that, but I disagree. Having to deal with their own family situation would, in my opinion, help them better relate to those of their congregation.

There are many things to consider when addressing this issue... I just wish the Pope felt differently. He is incredibly against the thought of priests being married. I think Catholicism is loosing many good spriritual leaders because of it.

Dear Friends,

Yes, let's return to the early Church traditon of married bishops.

The Catholic Church could work out a way to get back the thousands of its own priests who left to get married and who want to return to active ministry in their Church. That would solve a lot of the lack of vocations problem.

A recent poll in England concluded that the character that is needed for priests is an extroverted one, not the usual introverted one their ranks are currently filled with.

If this is so, then this certainly applies to bishops as well.

And the Episcopa can keep her husband in check at all times, something like having a "live-in" patriarch would you say?

As for those Catholic hierarchs who are against a married clergy, I recommend a saline solution for their eyes - once they pull their heads out of the sand that is . . .

I'll go now.

Alex