www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Looking for some advice/thoughts

Thanks Alice! Blessings to you!

Dear Orthodox Latin,
This link might be helpful: https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=001402
Good Luck & God Bless You!

To add to Fr. Deacon Ed's comments on running away from something I will add some advice my Grandfather gave me a very long time ago........

That, when something is wrong in your home, be sure that any running you are going to do is to run TO something, not FROM it.......

I have found it extremely helpful advice through the trials and vicissitudes of a fairly long and misspent life..........

Hi, guys.......all of you who know me, anyhow.

Permit me to contribute to this discussion; and I haven't the time to read through all the messages so please forgive me if I duplicate any comments.

First, let's make a distinction. There is a BIG difference between a Latin rite Catholic who comes to an Eastern church and then creates a ruckus trying to incorporate Latin devotions vs. one who is seeking refuge from liturgical abuses and where no Roman rite option is available to him that way and makes no such ruckus with regards other people.

That being said, if he (the Latin rite Catholic) comes and signs himself with the cross as he is accustomed to, or decided he wants to pray the rosary during the Divine Liturgy, leave him alone. What harm is it? Recently where I serve (a Roman rite Cathedral) we've had a Byzantine priest who is retired who comes and this is where he chooses to go. When I incense him, or when he makes the sign of the cross, he makes it in accordance with the Eastern practice. No big deal. He isn't doing it to be contrarian, he's doing it because that's what he's used to. Now, if he came and started to tell everyone to do it this way as opposed to that, then there is a problem of course. So we can all agree that one should not come with an attitude of imposition.

But, as regards the idea that a Latin rite Catholic must not come to an Eastern Church as a place of refuge, I must say I disagree and think that is not right.

I understand that the motivation in saying this is merely that one should come with positive reasons most ideally. That is true -- as an ideal. Likewise should we approach our salvation out of love of God rather than fear of Hell. That is the more perfect way to be certain.

But, if that brother in the Faith is seeking a place of refuge, seeking a place where he can worship the Holy Trinity in peace of mind. If he is finding there are abuses going on, or heterdox teaching which is a stumbling block, destroying his spiritual life (or his children's) then it seems to me it would be uncharitable, even un-Christian, to tell him he should stay away.

If that is where he will receive the solid food of the Holy Gospels and the graces he needs to live his Faith then so be it. Is not the salvation of souls the first and foremost of our concern? Are we not brothers in the same Faith ultimately? What would Christ have us do?

Our individual customs and traditions are important. And let us keep our rich treasury that makes us unique. Let us not seek to disrupt that for one another. But likewise, let us welcome one another, especially when some of our brethren are starving and out in the cold at this time. Let us provide them with spiritual food and shelter so that they should be strengthened.

Just a thought.

My 2 cents....

I'm delighted when anyone finds their way 'eastward'. We should encourage everyone who thinks of joining our Church.

When you think of the thousands and tens of thousands who have abandoned the Eastern Catholic Churches in this country, for the Latin Church or for Protestant Churches. We don't question their motives or peer into their decisions to see if they're worthy.

If a few wander back the other way, great.

Nick

I agree. And after all, it is a complaint (and justly so!) that many Latin rite Catholics are fairly oblivious of the Christian East. Should not their journey in this way be welcomed as a learning opportunity and can we not pray and hope that even if they came out of refuge, whether they leave or stay, they will hopefully be warmed by the light of the East?

Everyone -- I really appreciate all of these replies. It has given me SO much to think and pray about. Thank you for your willingness to share your thoughts and advice. And also the very warm welcomes here in the thread and the several by PM.

Keep 'em coming -- I'm really listening!

God Bless

Dave

I had the same issue about a month ago that the original poster had (I was about to fully explore my interest in the Eastern Rites when I had a terrible health crisis come upon me. My health is better now so I am back to continue my exploration).
I have a question about attempting to explore the Eastern Rites. Is there some kind of thing that the Priests have about new people? Is it like converting to Judiaism where you have to ask 3 times before they will entertain your questions? I am just curious because every time I try to approach them they seem unavailable.

No, I don't think it's a "three times" issue. It may be that the priest is very busy (I know the priest in my parish is...).

I also want to make it clear that I welcome people who want to explore the Eastern Catholic Churches. I think we have a lot to offer, and that our approach to theology and spirituality is of great benefit to the world today.

What I object strongly to is people running away from the Latin Church and expecting to find in the East what is lacking in the West. We have our own problems, and one of the great things that is currently taking place throughout the United States is the delatinization of our Churches.

So, come for our spirituality, our theology, our way of life. Don't come looking for a solution to what is missing in the Latin Church. More and more you will find that those practices that had found a home in the East are disappearing. This includes the public recitation of the rosary (although this still happens, especially in Ruthenian and Ukrainian parishes), you will probably not find Benediction and Adoration because they are not authentically a part of our tradition. Stations of the cross, confessionals, first communion, holy water fonts, et al are not a part of our tradition either. While you may still find these, they are latinizations and are things we are to be removing from our praxis.

So, come, learn, share, be filled with the Spirit, breath with both lungs. But do not expect to find what is lacking in the Latin Church here.

Fr. Deacon Edward

I know that I can not speak for others, as for myself, I am looking for the truth. From what I have been able to read about the Byzatine church it seems to have maintained the truths from the early church. I went to the Latin rites never knowing that the Eastern rites exsisted until recently. I wish that I had had the option of exploring the Eastern rites when I was converting.
Thanks to everyone here for their support!

Dear Father Deacon Edward,

I greet converts to our Church by reminding them they are also returning to the ancient traditions of the Latin Church too!

Like the Sign of the Cross that they are now doing properly .

And when they bring up the Rosary, I say: "Oh, that old devotion? We had it from the 8th century already. It's so popular among us that we don't even mention it much . . ."

Icons, I continue, are what their sculptors used to base their statues on . . .

And litanies are just (much) shortened akathists that were brought in during a time of chronic "Latin liturgical laziness."

I just love converts. They believe everything you tell them!

Alex

I think the thing to remember about the Latin church is that it has its own very profound traditions, spirituality, theology, etc.

In its own right, I consider it a tradition of equal value and merit. It has its own "light" if you will.

The thing to remember as well, however, is just how profound a crisis of faith there is in some parts of the Latin church right now. You can literally find many places where the Faith in the most basic terms is not being preached and practiced.

The comparison to the Arian crisis is not always that far off the mark.

Thus, what I am speaking of is when we are dealing with people who literally have only dissenters and (yes) heresy to contend with. In short, their own tradition, but more than that, the universal faith that is united by East and West, may be lacking.

For those in such cases, surely they must be welcome. That is all I wanted to say in all this.