www.byzcath.org

I noticed that several months ago there was a thread about the multi-faith plans for the shrine at F�tima, Portugal. However I have not seen a word here yet about the Hindu priest saying his pagan prayers in the sanctuary of the shrine there on May 5, 2004.

Am I the only person on this forum opposed to devil worship being conducted on Christian altars?
("For all the gods of the nations are demons,..." Ps. 95:5)

Господи пдмилуй!

Porter

No, you're not alone in opposing the use of Christian churches by Hindus (and Buddhists, etc.). I'm sure that the Hindus are good, kind people, but they can't be allowed to use churches.

I thought that there was a thread somewhere about this, but I'm not sure.

Jason

I have heard about this supposed event. I could be wrong but I believe that this rumor comes from only one source and that is a dubious article that has more dubious 'proofs'. Personally i doubt it ever happend.

Jason B.

I found some interesting sites on the topic

FATIMA WILL REMAIN CATHOLIC
Inside information on Fatima's Pluralistic Controversy

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Newsletter/FatimaInterfaith4.htm

http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/archives/007641.html

Dear Friends,

Certainly, the integrity of Christian shrines need to be preserved!

But the Mother of God is honoured even among pagan peoples, let's remember.

Hinduism has also declared Jesus to be the "ninth avatar" of one of their gods and worship Him as such in India.

The Roman Caesar Alexander Severus (under whom St Tatiana was martyred) also ordered a statue of Christ to be placed alongside the statues of the Roman gods in his palace where he worshipped Jesus as a pagan.

When Our Lady appeared at Zeitun in Egypt, Protestants came out in droves to praise her - including the leader of the Evangelical Baptists of Egypt, according to Fr. Yuri Fedoriw who travelled to Egypt to research the entire matter.

Muslims and Christians come together for Christian festivals in Egypt and Ethiopia - and at Montenegro at the Shrine of St Basil Ostrozhki.

And let's remember that "Fatima" is the name of the daughter of Muhammad himself.

Hindus also come out for Christian festivals in India.

Even Mother Teresa Christianized Hindu traditions, as have Catholic and Protestant missionaries before her, including the Diwali festival of lights.

And most of our "Christian culture" in the West still has many pagan elements.

Today is Wednesday which comes from "Wodin's Day" or the day on which sacrifices were made to the oak god, Wodin.

The Christmas tree is the descendant, Christianized by Martin Luther, of the decorated oak tree that used to honour Wodin.

The Serbian Orthodox have the most ancient Christianized version of this - they decorate an oak branch and have it blessed in church which they then hang on their wall.

Alex

Alex,

I have seen this comment posted many times, in many places, by many people, usually in the context of or related to this whole controversy, and my reaction is always the same - "so what?"

Muhammed's daughter wasn't named for Our Lady of Fatima, whom she long preceded, nor was the site of Fatima in Portugal named for her. So, I fail to see the point of this as having any bearing on the discussion of the Fatima Shrine as a place of ecumenical worship.

Many years,

Neil

Sadly, the 'rumors' seem to be true. The most credible articles on the subject have been running in the "Catholic Family News", which has included pictures and transcribed recordings of 'interfaith' events and conferences. Truely a sad state of affairs.

Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed, and the apparation of Our Lady. There is a connection. According to the late Archbishop Sheen, the Moslems will be converted through Mary.

Dear Mike,

Yes, you are right. Perhaps you can speak to Neil about that too?

In fact, if Neil wasn't so angry today, I would tell him that I know Muslims who have images of Our Lady of Fatima in their homes and who say that the name "Fatima," for them, indicates that Our Lady wishes to be honoured by the Muslims as well as by Christians.

But I doubt if Neil would see any connection there either.

Perhaps I'll find an article written by someone other than us that may go further to convince him. I know there are such articles and a number have been published in Fatima magazines, including comments by Archbishop Sheen.

I know I certainly don't count for much with Neil . . .

(The second day back after some time away from the Forum - it didn't take me long to get someone mad, did it? )

Anyway, I've overstayed what was supposed to be a brief visit anyway!

God bless, Mike, and all of you!

Alex

Novo,

I'd hesitate to cite Catholic Family News as an unbiased or mainstream info source. It's ultratraditionalism leads me to take anything they report along this line with several grains of salt.

As an example, some comments from it on an early 19th century work by a Scottish Catholic bishop:

Many years,

Neil

Mike,

Unless we are to credit Archbishop Sheen as a seer or prophet, that was his opinion. I can't get there.

Many years,

Neil

Irish Melkite,

I agree with your assessment of CFN; I only threw that one out there because it oftentimes is another good source of information which, I think, should be distilled with other sources for a more complete reflection on a topic.

Also, they do get some things right (for RC's that is - hehe).

Alex,

Me ... angry? Did you see my discussion on the relative merits of Bulgarian versus Armenian starter cultures for yoghurt?

You need to concern yourself less with such ideas; by now, you should know that when I'm angry, it's very noticeable. Just because I say "who cares?" is no indicator of anger; it is what it says - my unelucidated expression of my opinion on a particular topic.

Many years,

Neil

If it is true, and that is a big if, then I say GOOD! Isn't there something in a Book we are all supposed to respect about "My House is a house of prayer for all peoples"? Doesn't some of the documents from the Second Vatican Council talk about the good things in other religions..that good prayers are always heard no matter to whom they are addressed? Even in the Narnia Chronicles that conservative Christians always seem to love, talks about Aslan receiving the prayers of those who were devoted to Tash if their hearts were pure. I have never heard anyone calling that heresy. We should be happy when anyone prays and our churches should be open to anyone who prays, no matter to whom they are praying.

Dear Neil,

O.K.!

Alex