www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Query for Orthodox here: Orthodox practice on Anaphora?

This is a query for Orthodox posters on this board:

What is the practice in Orthodox parishes you are familiar with regarding taking the Anaphora out loud?

Does it vary from parish to parish or Diocese to Diocese?

If the Anaphora is taken aloud at times, is it always taken aloud? What percentage would you guestimate for taking it aloud?

If you could, please identify the jurisdictions involved and feel free to share any other comments on this subject with us.

Thank you,

Nec

Dear Nec,

I can only speak from personal experience. For the most part in the Greek Archdiocese of America, the anaphora prayer is taken aloud after the psalti or choir sings the line "It is truly meet..." The priest then finishes he prayer for all to hear. My guess is that the psalti or choir may be rushing the response, thus leaving a long pause that was not understood by the laity. I also know for a fact (I have a classmate that is an Antiochian Orthodox priest, and we just had this conversation a couple nights ago) that the Antiochian Archdiocese does not permit this, but instead reads the epiclesis aloud for the Amen responses.

Now for speculation, I believe it is by parish or diocese (I am not sure as to which) that the OCA will permit the anaphora to be read aloud. I am sure that someone may be able to verify this or correct it.

I hope this helps,

In the Risen Christ,
Father Anthony+

Posted by Stephen ... maybe wrong place, as responce
https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003212

Thanks for the reponses so far.

So, if I understand the Greek practice the first part of the Anaphora is not heard by the people as the choir is still singing the response. Is that true also with the "Holy, Holy, Holy Lord" (Sanctus)? That the priest begins the prayer while the choir sings the "Holy...Lord"?

Are there Greek parishes which take the entire Anaphora aloud? Are there some which do not take it at loud?

Thanks, Stephen, about OCA practice. I know the parish I visit occasionally does not take the Anaphora aloud, though if you're close to the iconostas you can sometimes hear Father!

Nec

Christ is Risen!
Firstly, a comment: It would be interesting to ask if anyone has heard the Anaphora taken aloud in an Orthodox country, or even outside of North America.

Personally, I have never heard the Anaphora out loud. Over my lifetime, I have most attend Liturgy in ROCOR or the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Nowadays, I most often attend at either my ROCOR parish or a monastery of the Greek Archdiocese. However, I travel frequently. When it is not convenient to attend a ROCOR Church, my second choice is usually a Serbian Church (Patriarchate of Pec), although I have been to many jurisdictions in the USA. In 1996, I was in Alaska for 6 weeks, and attended services at OCA Churches. I have been to services in many countries, including Greece (where I lived a year and have visited since, and attended services in the Patriarchate of Constantinople [both on Athos and in the Dodecanese] as well as in the Church of Greece) and Serbia and Russia (where I attended Liturgy in the Patriarchate of Moscow's Churches in several cities). And, again, I have never heard the Anaphora out loud.

Photius

On the level of world Orthodoxy, I would say that the number of parishes where one might find the Anaphora chanted or read aloud is statistically negligible. I don't believe that I've ever heard the Anaphora read aloud in its entirety in an Orthodox church, though I've certainly heard parts of it read aloud in a few places.

Incognitus

As for Photius, I am glad for his many traveling experiences. I as a priest of the Greek Archdiocese know what is permitted and given by liturgical directive. Also the cited instances with the Antiochian Archdiocese, can be backed by their liturgical guide.

I really am tired of being referred to without direct wording, that I am a liar.

Father Anthony+

Dear Father Anthony,

Your posts are well thought out, and it is obvious that as a priest you know what you are talking about.

Kissing your right hand,
Alice

Alice posted!!

Now we wait for Fr Gregory...

Father, Anthony, Bless!
Christ is Risen!
I am remiss in not noting that I generally seek out old calendar churches when traveling; I can only recall, in the past decade, have been to Liturgy in a parish church of the Greek Archdiocese twice and of the Antiochian Archdiocese once, and in none of these three was the Anaphora said out loud.

Whom do you refer to with your unattributed accusation? I would not ask, but my name is the only name that appears in your post, and if I'm the person you implicitly accuse, I assure you that you are mistaken.

Kissing your right hand,
Photius

"Statistically negligible" means that given the error associated with limited sampling of a large population, one cannot rule out, at some standard confidence level, the hypothesis that the actual number is zero. The sampling reported here already rules out that hypothesis. "Negligible" means merely that whatever the number, it is without consequence for some particular purpose, whatever that may be.

Photius,

I imply nothing, I am stating it. Your tone of writing is "better or better than thou" in fashion, and the underlying tone is quite accussatory. I am not the only person making this point, but have been contacted by others via PM, with similar complaints concerning the above point. When I state a policy, I have the written directive in front of me, or I have the person with the directive that can get me the hard copy fast.

Father Anthony, Christ is Risen!
Please forgive me! I honestly attempted to answer the question as to what I have observed, and I honestly have never observed the Anaphora said out loud. I admit that I attempt to frequent only more traditional churches while in non-Orthodox countries, but that, and my observations in several Orthodox countries, methinks, should be counted in this informal survey. I never intended to accuse you of lying! At worst, I accuse of of not being a traditionalist, which I would hope a reader would weigh against the facts that I eschew churches with pews or that use the new calendar, and so am not a typical American Orthodox.

Kissing your right hand,
Photius

Dear Father Anthony,
CHRIST IS RISEN! No one appreciates being called a liar - I certainly don't appreciate some poisoned darts that have come in my direction. And a weakness of this sort of communication is that it is not easy to determine the "tone of voice" or "body language" with which someone is expressing himself.
That said, I've honestly not noticed Photius calling you or anyone else a liar. I don't know him personally (to my regret) but I'm inclined to think that if he genuinely wished to make such an accusation, he would do so without dissembling or using hints.
It is also true that issues to do with Liturgy are of necessity in an area which is close to our hearts, and hence it is very easy to take offense where none was intended - it is also very easy to give offense without intending to do so.
To substance - you mention that you have or can readily obtain specific directions as to the reading of the Anaphora aloud. That data would be of serious interest and a valuable contribution, if you care to share it.

kissing your right hand (following the excellent lead of Alice and Photius),

Incognitus

Pani Rose, thanks for putting my message where it belongs; I have no idea how it went astray.

Photius, I don't think I have ever heard the Anaphora taken aloud in a ROCOR church or a Greek monastery either. And Ill wager you won't hear it among the Old Believers. ROCOR may even have a directive of some sort forbidding such a practice; I don't know that they do, but it wouldn't surprise me.

However, it does happen in other jurisdictions, so it is not "statistically negligible" in terms of the question originally asked (which was not limited to ROCOR + monasteries).

Stephen