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Joined: Jan 2002
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Hello, peace be with all!
I attend a Roman Catholic high school, in fact, I write this message here right now. One of the students here, who will remain anonymous, is a friend of mine who I often see in history class. I brought BDW to school today, and many mistook it for a bible, this friend being one of them. Of course, we entered into a hot theological discussion, regarding the existence of God and his presence. He said, and I quote, "I have no intention of worshipping the Catholic God." Of course, I went into the rebuttle, mentionning that God has made himself known by His miracles and blessings (I explained the Holy Light and the Eucharistic miracles)and that if he didn't know God, it wasn't because God isn't there, it's because there is no prayer life.
Things continued into the hallway, where the debate drove onwards, both of us making good points. Eventually, we got tired, though I got the last reflexion, and it was then that he brought up once again his faith. Daoism (or Taoism), as he is in Kung-Fu and he considers this religion to be prime.
He brought a book concerning the writings of Lao-Tsu, and I was in no position to argue again. Wanting to learn more about his choice of belief, I asked "what's Daoism?" to which he replied "a religion of reading sacred writings and interpreting them however you want, there is no higher interpretation. " (or something to that effect). I began speaking with him abour Confucius and he told me about his dream of visiting the Shaolin temple in China. It was an interesting conversation. After itt ended, I was saddened that I could not do more to serve Christ by trying to help my friend. The sad thing is that he seems to not even take this at all seriously, yet people look up to him for wisdom instead of I (this being relevant since I am the only... popular, you could say, practicing Christian in the entire school!). Is this another case of someone desiring religion for power? Is it a person who simply has this wishy-washy effect on people because he has this new age way of thinking? I would like your input and some insights on what I should do in these desperate times.
thank you all
-Justin


May peace be with you all, brothers ans sisters in Christ
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I would also like to add that I had little defence on his arguement of "maybe the bible was just written by a bunch of drunk guys at different times" though I would like to have some information regarding the authenticity and nature of the scriptures that I could help him out with. He is one of those "aliens may have built the pyramids and the bermuda triangle" kind of people.
Thank you all!
-Justin


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Amen
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Dear Justin,

Forgive me a sinner!

There are two aspects to your post.

The first is the issue of Taoism vs. Christianity. The second is Justin vs. the Taoist as local Fount of Wisdom smile .

I don't know how helpful this would be in your case, but the Catholic Church has within it what are called the "Chinese Rites."

These rites, approved by Pope Pius XII, constitute the reception and practice by Chinese Catholics of certain elements of their Confucian heritage.

For example, the tablets bearing the name of Confucius are kept in rooms and it is common to bow to them when entering or leaving a room.

This and other rites were studied by those indefatigable Jesuits in China and were given the green light. The Franciscans were suspicious of these and gave them the red light. Rome at the time went with the Franciscans, to the great detriment of the spreading of the Church in China.

Today, Chinese Catholics have altars to their ancestors at home before which they perform ancestral rites on All Souls Day.

They honour Confucius in parades and other ways - it is civil, not religious tribute they give him.

Thomas Merton and other Catholic writers have studied Taoism and have written on it.

Jesuit Priests living in China way back when actually became Confucian scholars - the two do not need to conflict - and thus occupied the highest social strata of Chinese society.

They could build on the moral and philosophical structure of Confucianism and thus relate the Gospel to it by way of an "Old Testament."

The fact that the Chinese Rites were forbidden then meant the Jesuits could not continue as Confucian scholars and integral members of Chinese society.

And the Christian enterprise there failed. The Rites were approved in 1946.

So, you might want to say that Catholicism has intellectually met with Confucianism and that it has received it and baptized it.

It would be good to read Merton and about the whole Chinese Rites controversy first.

As for who is the "Fount of Wisdom," that issue happens on this Forum too.

Here we don't have Confucius, but we have Brendan, Joe Thur, Dr. John and the Administrator, as well as others.

I think that you shouldn't be worried about the fact that others go to your Confused Friend smile rather than to you.

It is often seen as being "cool" when one is of a non-Christian religion.

You need to establish your unique niche, so to speak.

Perhaps you could don the image of a Christian guru or someone who is "really into" the Jesus Message. (I'm using phrases my former students used!).

One student I knew wore a fish pin and prayer beads around his neck. He read the Bible widely and had the aura of a mystic about him.

Whatever makes you feel comfortable - once people see that you aren't a Christian because you are simply going with the Establishment, they'll "twig to you, man."

Be your own person, never mind what others say, and do your own thing, man.

Remember St Louis de Montfort? Like, man, he really preached the Gospel and devotion to Mary, like wow! smile

He carried a large Rosary and a Crucifix. He wore a little chain on his wrist (like don't tell me you don't already wear one on yours, Big Guy!).

He preached the devotion of Holy Slavery and people are still attracted to his writings. Like the Top Man in Rome, y'know, the Pope, no less!

You should become like him in your context. Call attention not to your being cool, but to Christ being "cool!"

Reflect the Wisdom that comes from within - and stay cool!

Forgive me a sinner,

Alex

[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

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Justin,

He might like the book, "Christ the Eternal Tao" by Hieromonk Damascene. Compares Taoism with Orthodoxy.

In Christ,

anastasios

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Dear Justin,

Remember about those Wise Men I mentioned?

Anastasios is definitely among them!

(And his reference is excellent).

Forgive me a sinner,

Alex

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Thank you all for your input, I do so greatly enjoy it all. I assure you, this has nothing to do with coolness, and I do always point to Christ. It is just that I fear that his example will spread to others (just the other day I overheard him speaking to another friend of mine and I distinctly heard her say, mimicing him, "yeah, church is pretty much the same stuff over and over again". And she particapates at church very often!). As far as Taoism is concerned in this case (though, once again, he may have said Daoism, if there is a difference) I agreed with much of the philosophy, saying that it was cool. Though he was distinctly against the idea of going to church to "to hear the same stuff over and over again" and against God in his belief system. I could recommend the book, though I fear that he would either not accept or that he would simply shrugg it off. I hope that you may continue to help me out here. Thank you all.
-justin


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Amen
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Justin,

For his own growth in better understanding Christianity - Catholicism. I would take OC's suggestion. Learn something all the time because I didn't know that stuff about the Chinese Church.

But other then that I would leave the kid alone. Doesn't sound like he's on to bad of a path. Could be worst. And if he is under a good Kung Fu instructor I'm sure he will grow spiritualy by leaps and bounds. Perhaps he may come to the Church in the end, perhaps he won't.

Have you seen Jet li's movie "The One"? A good action movie that mixes in well the Buddhist beliefs of reincarnation, also asking or theorizing more complex questions or notions. What do we get - Stigmata. With great Christian theology of being scared of women and sewer lids blowing off... LOL!

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one last point I should try and make, he really doesn't seem to take anything seriously, even tao/daoism, so it is unlikely that he will progress spiritually. He has many biases against the church, the teachings of christ and the authenticity of scriptures as well. Though I'm sure he thinks that there is absolutely no fault in taoism... of course :rolleyes:
thank you


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Brother Servant86, I would take the advice of those writing above -- don't sweat it at all. As long as you're willing to be there and talk with this guy, you can't do much more. Just being a friend is sometimes the best absolute witness anybody can give. And, it sounds like you're doing it already. (And enjoy the Christian/Daoist debates - it will make you both --hopefully -- better thinkers. [So, how's YOUR exercise program? Kathlik Kong-Fooo?]

Blessings! (Is it Friday yet?)


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