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#76841 09/26/02 12:05 PM
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17th of Thout (Tute) is September 27th.

From the Coptic Synaxarium:

Feast day of the Discovery of the Holy Cross

On this day the Church celebrates the discovery of the honored Cross upon which our Lord Jesus Christ was crucified.

It was found by the lover of God Queen Helen mother of Emperor Constantine the Great, from under a pile of rubble on Golgotha. After the Lord's crucifixion, the Jewish leaders saw the many signs and wonders that were manifest from the sepulcher of our Savior, such as raising of the dead and healing the sick. They became angry and sent forth throughout Judea and Jerusalem ordering the people to cast the sweep and dust of their houses over the sepulcher of Jesus of Nazareth. They continued to do so for more than two hundred years until it became a giant heap.

When Queen Helen came to Jerusalem, and asked the Jews about the whereabouts of the Cross, they did not inform her.

Finally, she was directed to an old Jew called Judas who knew the place. He wouldn't tell her at first, but after urging him, he told her about the pile. She ordered its removal and the holy Cross was found. She build a church for it, consecrated and celebrated it on the 17th day of the month of Thout.

Christians made pilgrimages at that place every year as they did on the feast of the Resurrection. A certain Samaritan called Isaac, as he was traveling with his family going to Jerusalem, reproved the people for taking the trouble of going to Jerusalem to honor a piece of wood. Among the people was a priest called Okhidus. As they were traveling they became thirsty. They came to a well where the water was foul and bitter. The people became dismayed and Isaac the Samaritan started mocking them saying, "If I witness the power of the Cross, I will believe in Christ."

The priest Okhidus was moved with holy zeal, prayed and made the sign of the Cross over the foul water and it became sweet. All the people and their animals drank from it, but when Isaac drank, the water was still foul and bitter. He regretted, cried and bowed down at the feet of Father Okhidus and believed in the Lord Jesus. Then he drank from the water and found it sweet. When Isaac the Samaritan arrived in Jerusalem, he went to its bishop who baptized him and his family. That water continued to have the power of becoming sweet for the believers and bitter for the others. A cross of light also appeared in the well and they built a church there.

The actual appearance of the Honored Cross at the hands of Queen Helen was on the tenth of the month of Paremhat. But because this day always lies during a fasting period, the fathers substituted it by the 17th of Thout which is the day the Church of the Cross was consecrated.

Glory and worship be to our Lord Jesus Christ forever and ever. Amen.


Here's a link to a translation of a sermon by H.H. Pope Shenouda III, but the translation is a bit weak. It's still beneficial though. smile
http://www.saintmark.com/topics/pope/books/The%20feast%20of%20the%20Cross.pdf


Peace and grace.
Agape,
Fortunatus
Amen, maranatha!
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Dear Mina,

Yes, thank you for sharing that and for reminding us that tomorrow is the Feast and fast of the Holy Precious and Life-Giving Cross of our Lord, God and Saviour, Jesus Christ on the Julian calendar.

Byzantine tradition, following Isaiah, sees the Cross of our Lord as being made of cedar, cypress and pine.

Tradition has it that St. Lot, Abraham's nephew, watered the spot at which these three trees grew in the desert until the time when our Lord was to be crucified when "all the trees of the forest shall rejoice" and He is called the "Lord of the trees."

The Eastern Byzantine-Slavonic tradition places great emphasis on the foot-rest where "the Feet of the Lord were."

It is slanted when Christ leaned to His Right toward the good thief indicating the victory of His Grace in our lives who are also called to defend and confess Christ as the thief.

Origen of Alexandria wrote that the title on which Pilate (did you know the Ethiopians honour "St Pontius Pilate?") wrote the charge against Christ was divided into three parts and given to three churches.

He viewed one such portion in a Syrian Church and commented that the wood was very light in colour and that the crayon with which Pilate wrote the charge (This is Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews) was red in colour.

The Greeks add the word, "NIKA" in representations of the Cross that means "He Conquers."

But this was "Greek" to the Slavs . . .

They understood these letters to mean "On Golgotha, He redeemed Adam by His Blood." (In Slavonic, "Na holhofti Iskupil Kroviyu Adama").

Alex

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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Origen of Alexandria wrote that the title on which Pilate (did you know the Ethiopians honour "St Pontius Pilate?") wrote the charge against Christ was divided into three parts and given to three churches.
Dear Alex,

It is because the Ethiopians are often referred to as Coptic (and not the Alexandrians somehow... biggrin ) that many people have asked us why "we" (the Copts) venerate him as a saint, which we do not. I am not sure I understand how the Ethiopians do either. I read a book about him by Paul L. Maier, and Pilate committed suicide, so I do not know how he could be venerated. Perhaps the Ethiopians have another tradition concerning his death, Aklie - can you enlighten us on this one?

Thanks for that info, I especially liked the tradition about Lot originally planting those.

"Shere pistavros ethowab!" ("Hail to the Holy Cross!" in Coptic)

Peace and grace.
Agape,
Wak-Wak
Amen, maranatha!


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Dear Mina,

Yes, the Ethiopians are the only Church that honour Sts. Pontius Pilate and his wife St Claudia Procla on June 25th - the Byzantine Churches do venerate St Procla (without her husband) as a saint and a great pillar of the early Church at Jerusalem.

The book you refer to reflects the later Western tradition concerning Pilate's suicide and the legend that the place where he committed suicide near Rome was haunted by evil spirits.

The East had a much more positive view of him which also led his name to be included in the Nicene Creed for all time - or so I was told wink .

There are apocryphal letters between Pilate and Herod that are kept as deuterocanonical scripture by the Ethiopian Tewahedo Church.

In one of them, Pilate writes to Herod that "It was no good thing I did in following your advice to crucify Jesus of Nazareth."

He said that, after the Crucifixion, his wife Procla (who apparently left him after he broke his promise to her to do "that righteous man no harm") and the believing Centurion came to him and told him, "He awaits you."

Pilate then says he went with them and found the Resurrected Christ in a field with "about 500 people" whom He was teaching.

He then saw that Christ began to approach him and he felt as if the earth under him was quaking and fell to the ground.

Christ then put His Hands on Pilate's shoulders and Pilate wrote that he could see the marks of the nails on them.

Christ then said, "Blessed are you throughout all generations, Pontius Pilate, for in the time of your governance was fulfilled the prophecies concerning Me."

According to the account, Pilate then became a Christian, along with his wife.

The Emperor Tiberius then recalled him to Rome to give a full verbal account of what happened with Jesus of Nazareth.

(We do know from Origen that Pilate did write a report concerning the events of Jesus' Passion and Death to Tiberius.)

During his audience with the Emperor, Pilate was asked why he gave in to the crowd to kill such a miracle-worker as Jesus - He could have been employed by the Roman Empire to further its aims etc.!

Pilate's explanation did not impress Tiberius who sentenced him to death by beheading.

Kneeling down, Pilate asked the Lord Jesus to receive his spirit.

As his head was cut off, St Procla saw an angel grasp it and then she died of joy that her husband had found peace with God.

There are other traditions concerning meetings with Tiberius.

The Eastern tradition of dying Easter eggs red comes from the story of the meeting between St Mary Magdalene and Tiberius.

As Mary was trying to convert Tiberius to Christ, Tiberius stopped her and said, "Come now, a man could no longer rise from the dead after having suffered such a death than this egg in my hands could turn red."

And Mary took the egg from the Emperor and it turned red in her hands!

The icon depicted Mary Magdalene holding up a red egg is an ancient one in Eastern Christianity.

Alex

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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
(We do know from Origen that Pilate did write a report concerning the events of Jesus' Passion and Death to Tiberius.)
Dear Alex,

Does this report survive today? Or does Origen give any clues as to what was in it?

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Dear Qathuliqa,

Origen just referenced it - he knew from members of Pilate's household that became Christians that the Procurator had written such a report as he was probably bound by protocol to do.

St Paul does mention the fact that there were Christians in the Emperor's household as well.

Alex

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Dear Mina,

I seem to remember reading something about the fact that the Coptic Church celebrates two annual feasts of the Holy Cross.

One is tomorrow - the dedication of the Church of the Sepulchre by St Helena.

The other is on March 19 (?) the actual finding.

Correct?

Alex

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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Mina,

I seem to remember reading something about the fact that the Coptic Church celebrates two annual feasts of the Holy Cross.

One is tomorrow - the dedication of the Church of the Sepulchre by St Helena.

The other is on March 19 (?) the actual finding.

Correct?

Alex
That's right - March 19/10 Paremhat is the actual finding, but that is always during great lent, so we set aside another day during regular season (consecration date, as you mentioned).

That tradition about Pontius Pilate is interesting (to say the least). If I'm not mistaken (I'm going to have to go home and check the back), in the notes of Maier's book, he gave actual written documental support of Pilate's suicide. :-( Also included in there, if I am not mistaken, is an excerpt from a letter written by Pilate to Emperor telling him about the crucifixion and condemnation. Hmm... this is really interesting.

Thank muchly for this info.

Peace and grace.
Agape,
w-w
Amen, maranatha!


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Dear Mina,

Yes, the West believed Pilate to have committed suicide - but there is no absolute proof as there cannot be.

The apocryphal letters of Pilate have been around much longer and it was on their basis that the Ethiopians canonized Pilate a saint.

I remember asking an Ethiopian priest about whether his Church truly venerated St Pontius Pilate.

His glowing eyes looked at me and said, "Yes we do - don't you?"

Would anyone like to start a devotional association? wink

Where's Joe Zollars when you need him? wink

Alex

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In the Name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. One God, Amen.

I guess Alex(andria)/Alemayu/Iskender more effectively answered the question about Pilate than I would have been able to. All I would have said is that we don't believe he committed suicide (frankly have never heard of the story) and hold that he converted to Christianity. His day is not accompanied by any type of festivity or celebration though. The best historians case for Pilate becoming a Christian I ever heard was actually made by a Protestant minister/scholar. He came to the conclusion after reading all the ancient materials. Needless to say that most of his fellow Protestants laughed him out of the room.

In regards to the Cross:

So our tradition says that St. Helena (Queen Helen) came to Jerusalem with the intention of helping the poor. She was looking for someone to show her the true place of the Cross. A Jewish man named Keriakos eventually showed her the area. There are then actually two views. One view states that after being shown the general area St. Helena burned incense and the incense circulated above the exact area where the Cross was buried. For this reason, St. Yared (author of the Ethiopian Church hymnary) wrote his Deggwa "segede tis' meaning "The smoke bowed.'

The other view is that St. Helena excavated to entire area she was showed by Keriakos and found three Crosses. Not being able to distinguish the actual one the Lord was crucified on she had a dead body placed on each one at a time. The instant where the corpse touched the True Cross the man came back to life and that is how the Cross was identified. (I must be fair and mention that I have heard people combine the two traditions and say that the incense circulated around the general area and when it was excavated all three Crosses were found and then the body was used to identify the actual Cross of the Lord.)

So Mina, speaking of Crosses I have a question. It is the tradition of our Church that the right hand piece of the Cross is held at the Egzabiher-Ab Church on Mount Gishen in Ethiopia. It is said that it was brought to Ethiopia by the Emperor Dawit (David) when he was returning from Egypt in the early 15th Century. Supposedly the Egyptians gave it to him to protect it from the Muslims. What are the traditions of Egypt on this regard?

God Bless


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Originally posted by Aklie Semaet:
Needless to say that most of his fellow Protestants laughed him out of the room.
It surprises me that any Protestant can look toward history and still be Protestant, this reaction does not surprise me. The story surprised me only because everything I ever read pointed to him committing suicide. I am not sure about the Ethiopian tradition,but at least I know now where it is coming from. It doesn't effect our salvation. :-) Although, I want to share this tradition with fellow youth at my church.

As per the Ethiopian traditions about St. Helen(a) finding cross, ours is very similar. We do not have the smoke tradition. We have two versions, one that she was in Jerusalem to help the poor and was looking for it, and another that she came specifically to find the cross. Both agree though, that she was trying to find out which cross was His, so a funeral procession was passing by, and she stopped them and laid the coffin at the foot of each cross, and the body came to life in front of Jesus' cross.
Quote
the early 15th Century. Supposedly the Egyptians gave it to him to protect it from the Muslims. What are the traditions of Egypt on this regard?
God Bless[/QB]
As for the tradition you mention about the right hand piece of thecross being held at Egzabiher-Ab Church, I have never heard this tradition, though it does not seem unfeasible or impossible to me (with my limited knowledge). I have heard traditions of our church giving Holy Things for protection (For example, St. Menas' body used to be taken to war during battlesand always guaranteed success), so it could be. Our tradition merely says that it was first put in the church dedicated to it, and was later cut in pieces and "divided" - whichin turn could very well mean getting to Ethiopia. We claim to have a TIIIIIIINY little pice of it at St. Sidhom Bishay's (the modern martyr) church in Demiatt, Egypt.

Peace and grace.
Agape,
MHNA (closest to Coptic I can type it here)
Amen, maranatha!


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Originally posted by A Copt:
It surprises me that any Protestant can look toward history and still be Protestant
People just don't make the connection so easily. For most cradle Protestants the question of apostolic succession, tradition, historical roots, etc. of their Church are not even things that they normally think about. In order to read historical materials and come to the conclusion of joining the Orthodox Church you have to already be of a certain mind set.

To this guy, the structure of his tradition is such that he does not think of Pilate "joining the Church' he thinks of it as "Pilate got saved.'

Because the Protestant tradition is so individualistic and eclectic a Protestant that comes to Orthodox conclusions has to do no more than believe those set of Orthodox beliefs while they remain a Protestant. Say a Protestant reads some of the fathers on questions of the Trinity or the nature of Christ. Let us then say that they become convinced that the way the early Church Fathers described the Trinity was correct. If there is no one to guide that Protestant all they are going to do is maintain an Orthodox belief (which they will not understand to be Orthodox; assuming they even heard of an Orthodox or know what it is) while remaining in their Protestant Church.

There are some Protestants now who are talking about the need to "talk about Mary more' and even Billy Graham has said that evangelicals do not give the Holy Virgin enough credit. What ever may come out of all this I can almost assure you one thing, all it will involve is certain beliefs or practices by Protestants looking more and more like Catholic or Orthodox ones, but it will not involve becoming an Orthodox or a Catholic.

It is hard to keep up with their changes sometimes. It used to be our impression of Protestants did not believe in the Trinity. So once we were having an exchange with one lady who converted to Protestantism about the subject and we eventually convinced her of the correctness of the Orthodox perspective. What did she then do? She changed Protestant Churches to one that believes in the Trinity.

For some people it just does not click. In our city there is one prominent African American journalist and is an ordained minister, I think with the Methodists. I have read some of the articles that he has written about the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and he even attends one of the Ethiopian Churches regularly and has become close friends with the Priests. [This is pretty funny because once when we were celebrating the Feast of St. Mary and were having a special service this guy was actually allowed to make some remarks to welcome the Bishop who flew in from another city. He started talking about how beautiful the Ethiopian Liturgy was and he got very excited and started, well, preaching protestant style with shouts and everything in the middle of an Orthodox Church which considers such behavior silly. This had to be one of the funniest moments of the year.] But with all of his praise for the Orthodox faith and his regular attendance at the Divine Liturgy did he ever convert? Nope, not at all. The thing that bothers me most is that, as far as I know, no one has even prompted him. So that is our fault. We are not doing the type of outreach we need to, not even with people in front of our face who are obviously Orthodox at heart.


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Dear Aklie - Selam!

Your point about Protestants and Mary - this I have always found fascinating!

The Ecumenical Society of the Blessed Virgin Mary actually unites Christians of all Churches and communities in the study and veneration of the Virgin Mary.

Historically, we know that Martin Luther always had his image of the Mother of God and was usually portrayed holding the Rosary!

King Henry VIII wasn't really a Protestant, but a Roman Catholic in schism - he carried his rosary with him at all times.

Oecolampadius even taught that it is a bad sign when a Christian has no feelings of esteem for the Mother of God!

Rev. Neville Ward wrote a great book on the mysteries of the Rosary: Five for Sorrow, Ten for Joy.

I've seen articles and books by other Protestants on Marian Devotion, including the great work by John de Satge, an Evangelical Anglican.

I read that Ethiopians, on pilgrimage to shrines of Maryam, do things like chant "Maryam!" many times.

Could you write a little about Ethiopian practices of veneration for the Mother of God and about Ethiopian shrines of Her?

Alex

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In the Name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. One God, Amen.

Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Could you write a little about Ethiopian practices of veneration for the Mother of God and about Ethiopian shrines of Her?
Alex,

Emebatachin Kidist Dengel Maryam (Our Lady, St. Virgin Mary) is seen by the EOTC as the protector of Ethiopia. Ethiopia is considered a spiritual fiefdom that Christ himself gave to his Mother (and this fiefdom is the extent of my support for feudalism biggrin ). Our tradition says it is Mary who's Icon spoke to some Ethiopian Pilgrims in Jerusalem that scolded Ethiopians for (males) covering their head in Church and wearing shoes in Church. She reminded them that Christ gave her Ethiopia for Ethiopians to honor Her and hold banquets in her Honor. That being the case how could they disrespect the Church by wearing shoes. For this reason Ethiopians have sense returned to the tradition of removing shoes before entering the House of God, like Moses who was told by God to remove his shoes when he saw the burning bush because the ground he stood on was Holy.

The way that Ethiopians understand Mary corresponds to the way they understand the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. So the Ark was described as a place where God dwelled, so was Mary the place where God dwelled. The Ark contained the Covenant of God with his people and so did Mary contain he who brought the New Covenant. Mother Mary herself is referred to as Kidane Merhet (Covenant of Mercy) and yes we ask Christ to have mercy on us for the sake of his mother 12 times during the Divine Liturgy.

The Church in Aksum that holds the original Ark of the Covenant is called “Tsion Maryam” (Zion Mary, or Mary Zion).

The most popular prayer in the EOTC is a book called Weddassie Maryam (Praise of Mary). It is arranged in seven parts for seven days of the week. Some have suggested that it is a translation of a Coptic service made sometime around the 7th Century but Ethiopian tradition regards it as the work of Mor Ephrem (no not Phil but the one he is named after smile )

There are no less than 33 Holy Days throughout the year for St Mary alone. Out of the 30,000 Monasteries and Churches about 15,000 of them are dedicated to St Mary. You thought that the Latin tradition emphasized Mary too much? Starting from the 17th Century until recently the name that Ethiopians called Latin Catholics was Tsere Maryam (enemies of Mary) because they thought the Latins did not go far enough. Of course now they no longer say that and read as well as appreciate the many books that Catholics have written against Protestant distortion, but the name Tsere Maryam is now given to Protestants.

Every month of the Calendar has a day dedicated to Mary (in addition to all the big annual Mary feasts that may also be represented on that month). The small Mary feasts (and there is also a monthly Gabriel feast) is basically people organizing themselves into either a Mary or a Gabriel Mahaber (association) and having dinner at another Mahaber member's house. It rotates, so if my family, your family, Mina's family and Phil's family were in the same Mary association then this month dinner is at my house, next yours, the following Mina's and so on through out the year (now cheap people usually try to get it at their house on a fasting day [they look at the calendar and see which months Maryam falls on Wednesday or Friday] so all they have to do is make lentils and vegetable combinations so I wonder which one of us that would be?). What is supposed to take place at these dinners is food, spiritual discussion and maybe the singing of spiritual songs. But of course with secularization most people now only eat and chat about everything else except God.

For the Assumption of Mary (Filseta) we fast for two weeks starting on Nehassae 1st (August 7th). This is one of the most strictly adhered to fasts on the Calendar. Everyone above age 7 is expected to do it.

As far as shrines of our Lady, well we don't have shrines in the form of statues as that is inconsistent with Judaic practices but we do have many Churches throughout the Country. The most famous is of course Tsion Maryam in Aksum. But Churches are not only dedicated to Mary herself but also certain features or characteristics of Mother Mary. So we have Churches emphasizing her as the Virgin who gave Birth to Christ (like Churches named Maryam Lideta (Lideta = Birth) or Kidane Merhet emphasizing the covenant of mercy and so on.

God Bless


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Dear Aklie,

How richly devotional and serenely beautiful!

May more and more of the Ethiopian liturgical tradition be translated into English so the West may be inspired by it too.

The Latins only emphasize Mary more than the Protestants.

The Latins cannot teach anything to the Eastern Churches about love and veneration for Maryam!

Alex


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