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What is the Orthodox (I know, many different churches) postion on the divorce and contraception and how do they relate to the Roman Church's understanding?

I just am full of questions today.
Thanks,
Devo

Dear Devo,

The Orthodox Churches are only "Churches" in that they have individual jurisdictions.

But there is now an American Catholic Church with its Primate (who may or may not follow Rome's directives on wayward politicians who support abortion policies etc.) and other nationally-based bishops' conferences. One can speak of a "Polish Church" and so on.

The Orthodox will allow for a church "divorce" on certain grounds after the local bishops have reviewed the specifics of a case.

The Orthodox will allow, under certain conditions, up to three such annulments/divorces.

Among the Ukrainian Orthodox, this saying developed: the first wife is from God, the second is from the people and the third is from the devil . . .

But subsequent remarriages are done in a purely pentitential spirit, so as to try and dissuade people from divorcing/remarrying in the first place.

Alex

Alex:

There is no "Primate" of the "American Catholic Church!"

Your Eastern mindset seems to prevent you from understanding (or misconceiving) the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church in the U.S.A. and, by extension, the Catholic Church worldwide.

AmdG

Dear Amado,

So who is the head of the US Catholic Bishops Conference.

There is no "first" at all?

In other words, who will sign the letter to the Pope to tell him they respectfully decline to obey him over the matter of John Kerry?

Your serve . . .

Alex

Now what is the Eastern stance on contraception?

I will learn eventually
Devin

Dear Devo and Alex,

Bishop Wilton Gregory of Belleville, Illinois,is not a Primate. He is the president
of the United States Catholic Bishop's Conference, of which Eastern Catholic bishops also are members. He simply chairs the proceedings of the meetings of the conference and in doing so I would believe that he signs documents sent to Rome for review. He has no more power or voice on matters than any of the other bishops.

As for contraception, the Greek Orthodox Diocese's website, though it does not approve of it, leaves it open as an individual matter to be determined by each married couple's circumstances. Can one presume from this that all of the particular Eastern churches are agreed on this? I don't know.

As for John Kerry receiving the Eucharist, I believe that Bishop O'Malley of Boston has made it clear that one who does not believe in accord with the church's teaching should not receive. It is the individual priest who would have to deny him. Other sources have stated that no one would be denied Communion when they approach the altar, but they receive at their own risk of salvation or condemnation.

Dear Bill,

The fact that Primates or presidents of national Catholic bishops' conference have no power does not mean that the role of the Latin primate doesn't exist.

The Pope himself once spoke of Cardinal Glemp as the "Primate" of the Church of Poland and there are other examples.

There is a "first bishop" in each country where there is a Latin Church and he is often referred to as a "Primate." Perhaps this is wrong parlance, but why would it be?

Does the existence of a primate here somehow offend the papal primacy?

This is all news to me and I've been reading the Catholic press for decades!

Alex

Dear Bill,

The position of the Latin Church on John Kerry has got to be one of the worst cases of "passing the buck" ever.

So now it is up to the individual priest to decide whether to give John Kerry communion or not?

That is also going against the spirit of Rome's directives on this matter.

Kerry received Communion at the Paulist chapel he attended and the priest there, when asked, said he fulfilled the requirements that his bishop put on him in this respect.

So no one, it would seem, wants to take responsibility for a clear "I obey Catholic teaching" from Rome.

This is a disgrace that all of us Catholics must endure.

Alex

Dear Devo,

Orthodoxy promotes family life and the having of children.

Like Roman Catholicism, it says families should have as many children as they can feed and educate.

As for particular methods of birth control, it leaves this up to individual couples who are to confer with their confessors on the matter.

Roman Catholicism condemns artificial birth control, but has yet to convince most of its members not to use it. In Quebec, the RC church has yet to convince Catholics not to have abortions.

But this shouldn't be a problem since the U.S. will soon have a President, apparently, who is a Catholic and who will actively promote abortion as a matter of women's rights.

Alex

Alex,

The only prelate in the Americas who is entitled to use of the title "Primate" is the Archbishop of Mexico City, who has the honorific title of Primate of Mexico. If there were to be a US Primate, it's acknowledged that it would be the Archbishop of Baltimore, by virtue of Baltimore being the proto-diocese of the US.

Since the mid-1800s, it has had no significance other than honorific pre-eminence, with a single exception. At Vatican II, the Primate of (hmm, it was either Hungary or Poland, can't remember which - if I can track down the info, I'll let you know) was recognized as such - none of the others was. The reason for this was unclear then and still is.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Alex,

XB!

Unless I am unusuall foggy today...the Orthodox normative practice is a maximum of three marriages, hence two divorces. As you have stated this is not exemplary behavior for a Christian and that is made clear. If there are three divoces there are four wives, unless one did not remarry after the last divorce, one then seems to be missing from the saying above.

Tony

Not quite true.

The ArchBishop of Quebec City has the title of "Primate of Canada"

You are correct that a title of Primate has not officially been assigned to the United States, but the Archbishop of Baltimore is refered to as the honorary Primate.

Dear Devo,

Traditionally, the Orthodox didn't count divorces, but only marriages, with the 2nd and 3rd granted only as a condescension to human sin (the sin could be wholy of the other half that destroyed the marriage, but the second marriage for the faithful partner is still a condescension only granted with the bishop's authority).

The issue of contraception is far more complicated. NO method that may harm a conceived fetus is ever acceptable! These are the abortafacients, not true contaceptives. Most of the pills are included in this category.

In general, I would say that a couple needs an extreme reason to justify artificial contraception.

Natural Family Planning is generally acceptable in Orthodox jurisdictions for the purposes of spacing births, increasing the probability of conception, or avoiding life-threatening health risks associated with pregnancy given certain specific medical conditions. It is not acceptable if the intent is to avoid the responsibility of giving birth to, loving, and raising children.

Abstinence is also part of family planning, but, as the Apostle wrote, "for a season by agreement..."

We (especially Latin Trad and I) have disagreed on a previous and rather bloody thread on the issue of even exceptional use of artificial contraception. I highly recommend that you search for the thread.

In Christ,
Andrew

Yeah, it was a good thread.

Contraception is never allowed, any more than abortion or any other sin can be "allowed".




LastingTrad

Dear Alex, Tony, Andrew,

In the Orthodox Church can I have three wives at the same time?

Jesus said, "No one can serve TWO masters..." Three masters must be OK.

Paul