This is what happens when I'm not emailed that a post I replied to has been added to... :rolleyes:
Better we look at what was going on during the time that Protestantism took hold in Europe. If we consider that by one account, only sixteen-thousand people were left in Germany because of the religious wars of the reformation, I can't help but feel that something was not quite right in God's eyes. He did allow it, and for Him to do so, he must have had good cause.
I'm not arguing that Protestanism wasn't used by God. Anything and anyone, including Satan himself, can be used by God. It doesn't necessarily make it a good thing or person in the least. God used people all the time in OT to make sure Israel stayed in line.
I think it is because we all use a different yardstick when judging others, and/or we perceive others through our own eyes. In other words, we or they, (by they I mean the Saudi's), see and judge our actions by what their own motives would be.
Please do pardon me if I do not understand fully what you are saying. I do my best. Are you saying that you think my grandparents' vision was through colored glasses? Just to clarify before I say anything else on what you said, I don't want to mistake what you said.
Then again, we are the world empire and want to remain that 'empire', and they are not and want to become the empire by restoring the Caliphate. Also I don't think they are particularly fond of having us impose our secular modes and morals on them....as we surely tend to do.
My grandmother is a pretty good person on the whole, however, and a good Catholic to boot. I don't believe she was using the secular measuring stick to view these people. That's half the problem, I think she was using the Catholic glasses, which is not a good sign.
I personally believe that the majority of Arab and Turkish Muslims are lovely and peaceful people as individuals. The only problem is that they are easily aroused and follow their leaders blindly.
But then again, I'm an American and I consider Americans lovely people...yet when high school students in Quebec were asked if Americans were evil, about 70% said yes. So taking that into account, let's not pay too much attention to what people say.
This is not what I think, this is what my grandparents know first hand, which is far different from high school students just taking a random guess at what I, or anyone else for that matter, is like. This is from my grandparents' rather informed personal expererience.
Let me briefly clarify my position as statetd in my first post. I believe that the reason why Islam (and Protestantism) have taken such a foothold in Catholic and Orthodox lands is because of the weakness of our own faith and praxis. My intention was to point out how these movements arise as a consequence of faithlessness on the part of believers - not necessarily to point out the faults of other faiths.
Amen to our weakness. I don't quite know how to voice my opinion on this matter as of yet, for matters such as these I tend to think in analogies and I don't have one just yet.....
My experience with Protestants has been far richer and more positive. The Protestant movement was an altogether different phenomenon than what it is today. There is much that can be shared and gained through dialogue and study with Protestants.
It sounds like we're comparing oranges to apples, people to the ideology. Trust me, many of my best friends are not Catholic, some are not even Christian, but atheistic or agnostic. I don't agree with their ideology, and I voice my opinion very strongly when it's time. Just recently I met a Protestant who is as strong in his faith as some of our wonderful seminarians in Pittsburgh. I will personally say that I admire him and wish to graft many of his personal qualities into me.
The actual religion/ideology/world view however, is something that I know is not the full truth, and even a white lie is still a lie. Again, I don't mean to say it like a rabid dog as it appears on the screen, I'm just saying it very manner-of-factly.
As for Muslims themselves, I'm not regarding Muslims in America per se, I'm talking about the ones who live in Muslim countries who seem to be very vile in personality.
Please accept my apologies for coming off strongly as I often do on this board Gordo and company.
Nathan Augustine
