www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Anaphorae of Mar Theodore and Mar Nestorius

Hello all,

The Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East use three different Anaphorae:

• the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari [cired.org] (used from Resurrection (Pascha) until the end of the church year),
• the Anaphora of Mar Theodore the Interpreter [cired.org] (used between Annunciation (Advent) and the Sunday of Hosannas (the Sunday before Resurrection), and
• the Anaphora of Mar Nestorius [cired.org] (which, IIRC, is very similar to the Anaphora of St. John Chrysostom -- it is used only five times a year: on Epiphany, on the Friday of Mar John the Baptist, on the Memorial of the Greek Doctors, on the Wednesday of the Rogation of the Ninevites, and on Passover).

Now, I know that the Chaldean Catholic Church uses the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari (with the addition of the words of institution). Does the Chaldean Catholic Church also use the Anaphorae of Mar Theodore and of Mar Nestorius?

My own Church, the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, uses only the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari (again, with the words of institution inserted). Long have I wondered why we do not use the full diversity of our own liturgical tradition.

Thank you all, for any info you can offer.


Peace,
Alex NvV

Dear Alex,

As I understand it, yes the Chaldean Church uses those Anaphorae, but don't refer to the authors!

The Assyrians refer to Mar Diodore of Tarsus, Mar Theodore of Mopsuestia and Mar Nestorius as the "Greek Doctors."

RC writers sometimes said that the first two were "fine" but that Nestorius would have to be expunged. Fr. Holweck in his Dictionary of Saints calls Diodore of Tarsus as the "innocent originator of Nestorianism."

Today, the general view is that it was Theodore of Mopsuestia who was the true author of Nestorianism, not Nestorius himself. Then there is the movement to rehabilitate Nestorius on the grounds that he was more a victim of the Miaphysite partisans of Cyrillian Christological terminology than a Nestorian, even though the heresy that was condemned took its name from him.

I knew a Chaldean priest who used our Basilian chapel (he used to get under their skin by reminding them that Nestorius was a Basilian just like them . . . ). He also told me he was in favour of rehabilitating the above three completely, for ecumenical reasons etc.

He also invited Assyrian priests to concelebrate with him at times. . .

Alex

The Chaldean Catholics do indeed use all three anaphorae - you'll find them in Fr Pierre Yousif's excellent edition of the Chaldean Liturgicon in French.

Rome approved the use of all three Anaphorae for the Syro-Malabar Church in 1962, if memory serves me correctly. However, the Syro-Malabar Church and Rome have been having a stand-off for decades: the Syro-Malabar modernists want to write new anaphorae, so they refuse to use the Anaphorae of Theodore and/or of Nestorius, and Rome refuses to allow them to write new ones. The only Syro-Malabar translations of the two Anaphorae in question are "unofficial", although I don't doubt for a second that priests can be found to use them if one knows where to look.

No slave is ever truly emancipated unless he sets himself free.

Incognitus

Thank you, both Alex and Incognitus.

Especially Incognitus's post was enlightening. Do you have a sources for the 1962 approval? And are you implicitly encouraging us to set ourselves free by writing new anaphorae? (I was astonished to discover today at the Syrian Orthodox Resources page [sor.cua.edu] that the West Syrian tradition has over 80 (EIGHTY!!!) anaphorae. I'm jealous. Even the Latins came up with several new Eucharistic Prayers after Vatican II; so, why can't the Syro-Malabars?)

As far as I can tell, the decades-long controversy is between people who want the Syro-Malabar Qurbana to be less Latin and more Chaldean (these people have friends in the Congregation for the Oriental Churches) and people who want the Qurbana to be less Latin and more Indian (I assume these are the modernists to whom Incognitus refers). Of course, that's a simplification. But IMO, I'd like to see the Syro-Malabar Qurbana be less Latin and BOTH more Chaldean and more Indian.


Peace,
Alex

Dear Alex,

I do not mean to go off topic here, but Incognitus' words are so true!

I was taught a different phrase with much the same meaning:

"Liberty is for the brave!"

In Christ,

Michael

Dear Alex,

The Chaldean Church in America only uses the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mar Mari. I'm not sure about the Chaldean Church in Iraq.

in Christ,

Khalid

There is no conceivable reason for the Chaldean Eparchies in the USA not to use the Anaphora of Theodore and the Anaphora attributed to Nestorius - they are both perfectly Orthodox and beautiful, particularly that of Theodore.

The Chaldean/Assyrian Church has been in India from Apostolic times - thus approximately two thousand years. That means that it is as authentically Indian as any other religion on the subcontinent (that it used Syriac for liturgical purposes does not make it un-Indian, any more than the Hindu use of Sanskrit renders the Hindus un-Indian). Indeed, the Syro-Malabar Church is the overwhelming majority of the Churches of the Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical family. There is a common fallacy among the Latins, which influences the Syro-Malabars, that "becoming Indian" means imitating the Hindus.

Before undertaking the writing of new anaphorae (a dubious exercise in any event), the least the Syro-Malabar Church can do is put the existing anaphorae into use.

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

What are the current rules in place concerning the veneration of Theodore of Mopsuestia et al. by Assyrians that come into communion wtih Rome?

Could they ever be changed?

Alex

"There is a common fallacy among the Latins, which influences the Syro-Malabars, that "becoming Indian" means imitating the Hindus."

I think the relevant point is where does Hindu stop and Indian begin. Is their anything Hindu that can be baptized and used by Indian Christians be they Syro-Malabar, Syro-Malankar, or Latin?

I think Fr. Francis Mahieu and Fr. Bede Griffiths tried to answer this.

I offer examples of their attempts with the reservation that the host site is a Liberal Catholic Church community and I am unsure of the extent of the tampering with the original texts but after a quick read it doesn't look too bad.

A Malabar Indianized Liturgy:
http://www.concentric.net/~cosmas/malabar_pooja.htm

A Roman Indianized Liturgy:
http://www.concentric.net/~cosmas/bede_griffiths_pooja.htm

Fr. Deacon Lance

Dear Fr. Deacon Lance,

In fact, the Assyrians and Miaphysites have been in India for a very long time and have adapted to the Indian culture.

The contemporary "Indianization" of the Church in India does indeed have to do with introducing items from the Hindu religious tradition, including values (i.e. no wearing of silver or gold crosses, only wood) and the lotus position et al.

The Book of Hours or the "Pentitho" I believe that Fr. Taft recommends ALSO includes readings from the "holy books of India" or Hinduism - innocuous enough, but they are from Hinduism.

Alex

Dear Alex,
You have asked "What are the current rules in place concerning the veneration of Theodore of Mopsuestia et al. by Assyrians that come into communion wtih Rome?

"Could they ever be changed?"

In principle, at any rate, nothing would prevent Rome from tolerating the veneration of Theodore of Mopsuestia - he's already highly esteemed for scholarly reasons. The Monophysites (oops, me scusi, I of course mean "the non-Chalcedonians") would go wild and there would be complications with the Orthodox because of the Fifth Council, but it could be done.

Nestorius is the real sticking point.

Dear Father Deacon,
So far the attempts to "Indianize" either the Syro-Malabar Liturgy or the Novus Ordo have produced serious scandals, and I am not exaggerating. The Hindus (!) eventually took the Catholics to court for mis-appropriating Hindu deities and religious practices and using them improperly; I'm happy to say that the Hindus won.
Hinduism is by no means the only historic religion in India, so turning into a Hindu does not mean becoming "more Indian".

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

Fascinating - and even though we know that Theodore of Mopsuestia was closer to "Nestorianism" than Nestorius himself!

The later Assyrian councils did make overt mention of "Two Prosopa" in Christ.

I guess there is really no leeway in interpreting what they meant!

Alex

I agree completely. It is often said that the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church is "Christian in religion, Oriental in worship, and Indian in culture". However, an older version of that saying, used, for example, by Fr. Placid Podipara, CMI, a very well-respected historian of the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, is "Hindu in culture, Christian in Religion, Oriental in Worship". Where is the line between legitimate inculturation and inappropriate syncretism?

and
This phenomenon of mingling Syrian Christian and Hindu practices -- both cultural and religious -- is not at all simple, and it is also not confined to recent times. If you are interested in this topic, then I encourage you to read a paper I wrote for a class a few years ago, "Influences of Hinduism on the Syrian Christianity of St. Thomas of Kerala, India" [alexnvv.home.comcast.net] . In the paper, I quote from Susan Bayly:
The paper is by no means comprehensive, but you might still be interested in reading about some crossovers between Hinduism and Syrian Christianity. I'm curious to hear your thoughts...

As for wearing no gold crosses, this is certainly news to me! I was told that in Kerala, a woman would never leave the house (i.e., she was not fully dressed) unless she were wearing some sort of gold! (Obviously, this only applies to those who can afford to pay for such luxuries.) The gold cross that I always wear was given to me by my father's mother, many years ago. Perhaps the movement towards solely wooden crosses is more recent?


Peace,
Alex