www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The River of Fire

In the other thread titled "Q", the issue of Heaven and Hell came up.

I offered the link to the OCA website because it was a relativley short explanation...

OCA - Heaven and Hell [oca.org]

But there is also Dr. Alexandre Kalomiros' "River of Fire" which is more detailed for those interested. And although people here may find it "anti-Catholic" in some ways, I feel a comparison to the Western concepts is obvious and helpful.

River of Fire [geocities.com]

Dear OOD,

An excellent article that puts into clear focus not only Orthodox Eschatology, but Soteriology as well.

Thank you for sharing it, Big Guy.

Alex

Alex,

It is funny this subject should come up b/c I have been discussing this very topic with a Latin friend of mine.

I know it is a shock that I could actually have a friend who is Latin and on top of that not get defuncted in my Church for being so Ecumenical... ...but it's true.

Nevertheless, he is absolutly shocked the Orthodox have a completely different view of Heaven and Hell. So much so, that he actually had me researching the fathers on the subject to see if they ever held a Western view.

Anyway, I find this topic very important and interesting, along the same lines that Alexandre Kalomiros points out.

What is more powerful than the statement of Saint Symeon the New Theologian who says that it is not what man does which counts in eternal life but what he is, whether he is like Jesus Christ our Lord, or whether he is different and unlike Him. He says, ”In the future life the Christian is not examined if he has renounced the whole world for Christ's love, or if he has distributed his riches to the poor or if he fasted or kept vigil or prayed, or if he wept and lamented for his sins, or if he has done any other good in this life, but he is examined attentively if he has any similitude with Christ, as a son does with his father.”

Which is exactly why we need the Church, so we can achieve this "Similitude"!

Dear OOD,
You quoted "In the future life the Christian is not examined if he has renounced the whole world for Christ's love, or if he has distributed his riches to the poor or if he fasted or kept vigil or prayed, or if he wept and lamented for his sins, or if he has done any other good in this life, but he is examined attentively if he has any similitude with Christ, as a son does with his father."

I fail to see ANY difference between the statement above and classical Latin theology. Latin theology teaches that renouncing the world, vigils, fasting are a means to an end. What end? To become like Jesus Christ! Perhaps leaving your misgivings of all things "Latin" behind and studying the great Latin's (St. John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, St. Bonaventure and others)you would discover how close traditional Catholicism is to Orthodoxy,regardless of what the polemicists say.

I thought that was a Johnny Cash song...no that's "Ring of Fire".

Dear OOD,

I am happy that you have forgiven me and are speaking to me . . .

You can also count a "Uniate" as well as a "Latin" among your friends.

Just tell your Father Confessor that you are actively engaged in outreach to "Hopeful heretics."

Another saint once wrote, in relation to devotion to the Most Holy Mother of God, that when the Holy Spirit comes across a soul which is united closely to the Theotokos, He begins to do in that soul what He did with the Theotokos - form Jesus Christ in it.

God bless,

Alex

Alex,

I have never forgiven you because I honestly never felt offended. Any forgiveness must be from you since it has been I who has constantly been leading people to that outward edge of discomfortable assesment. I realize I am not well liked and probably everyone thinks I am "Mr. Know-it-all", but I am willingly to be scorned, set on "ignore", ect if it will help even one person get even one step closer to God.

In addition, my secular job may not allow me any more time to spend on the internet in the coming weeks so most peoples wishes will come soon.

And I'm glad I can count you as a friend. If you are ever in the Chicago area let me know so we can kidnap you and stash you away at our monastery where the monks can go to work on you.


Laus Tibi, Christe,

I cannot discuss this further with you since I fear I may offend someone. If you read the first part of the "River of Fire", knowing that the point is not to be offensive but to just illustrate a strain of thought, then that should explain it.