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Since we are all in the reform of Liturgy mode I post New Skete's schema for Vespers and Archimandrite Taft's recommendations for their reform for your evaluation and comments. The New Skete reformed Horologion can be found in -A Prayerbook- published by the Monks of New Skete and available from same. Archimandrite Taft's can be found in the article "The Byzantine Office in the Prayerbook of New Skete: Evaluation of a Proposed Reform" found in OCP 48 (1982) Pages 336-370.

New Skete Reformed Vespers

Initial Blessing
Beginning Prayers
Psalm 103 (Psalm 85 in Lent)
Prayer 4 or Prayer from Prime
Psalmody with Prayer 1, 2, 3, or 5 after each stasis
Behold Christ, the light of the universe, with blessing with candle (as at Presanctified)
O Joyful Light and lighting of lamps
Psalm 140 as at Presanctified and offering of incense on weekdays. Psalms 140, 141, 129, and 116 with stichera and incensation on Sundays and Feastdays.
Prokimenon
Reading
Litany of Peace and Litany of Supplication
Prayer 7
Vouchsafe, O Lord
Prayer of Inclination
Aposticha
Canticle of Simeon
Trisagion Prayers
Troparia
Dismissal

Taft�s proposed revisions to New Skete Reformed Vespers

Initial blessing
Beginning Prayers
Psalm 103 (Psalm 85 in Lent)
Prayer 4 (Prayer 1 in Lent)
Psalmody with Prayer 2, 3, 5, or 6 after each stasis
Behold Christ, the light of the universe, with blessing with candle (as at Presanctified)
O Joyful Light and lighting of lamps
Prayer from Prime
Psalm 140 and offering of incense (as at Presanctified)on weekdays. Psalms 140, 141, 129, and 116 with stichera and incensation on Sundays and Feastdays.
Prayer 8
Prokimenon
Reading
Vouchsafe, O Lord
Litany of Peace and Litany of Supplication
Prayer 7
Prayer of Inclination
Aposticha
Canticle of Simeon
Trisagion Prayers
Troparia
Dismissal

Dear Lance,

We are all 'not' in the reform of the Liturgy mode. I do not think the Liturgy of the Eastern Church needs reformation at all. It is not broken. It is a masterpiece to be revered, treasured and appreciated.

The innovations of New Skete have been roundly rejected by the Orthodox world. Their experimentations are not favorably received. We do not need to go there.

What is wrong with Vespers? It is a magnificent office.

The burden is on the revisionists to indicate that it is in need of revision, and why they feel that now is the time for this task. They have not proven that there is any need whatever of revision, so attempts to propse revision are superfluous, un-necessary, tiresome, and a great distraction.

The whole idea of revising the Liturgy (or Vespers) seems to come from those who have "studied" Liturgy, in universities, courses, programmes and associations dominated by a 'liberal' and left-wing agenda within the Church.

It is taking a long time for the Roman Church to recover its Liturgy from those who have hijacked its reform in the last 30 years. But in some places traditionalists (strengthened by Rome's leadership and direction) are slowly making efforts to restore the beauty of the Latin Litury.
Are the 'liberals' and those with other hidden agendas now targeting the Byzantine Church as an object for their reforming zeal?

Leave the Liturgy alone. It is not in need of reform or revision. I myself (we ourselves, if I may be so bold) am (are) in need of repentance and reform. Let this be the focus of our attention, not this misguided quest.

Let us us conform ourselves to the Liturgy, rather than reforming the Liturgy to the fashions of this time, and the theories of today's Liturgists. Let us allow the Liturgy to change us, rather than suggest we should change the Liturgy.

Elias

"The burden is on the revisionists to indicate that it is in need of revision..."

To me this is the key of the whole debate.

John

AMEN !!!!

Father Elias,

I should have stated "in the discussion/debate over the reform of Liturgy" mode.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Vespers, it is my favorite office. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with New Skete's reform either. The three major changes are the proper placement of the vesperal collect prayers and saying them aloud as opposed to reading them all silently during Psalm 103, the blessing with candle as at Presanctified, and the replacement on weekdays of the normal Psalm, 140, 141, 129, 116 and stichera with Ps 140 as done at Presanctified.

As to the first change Taft notes: "The received usage of reciting them all together at the beginning of Vespers is obviously meaningless." I agree, although I think you will disagree. The last two are something which Taft notes was the original way of doing things in the Old Constantinople Cathedral Office. Is it wrong to restore elements of the Cathedral rite? We are not using something foreign but replacing one usage with another, nor can this be called ancientism because we still use these elements, albeit elsewhere.

You state: "The whole idea of revising the Liturgy (or Vespers) seems to come from those who have "studied" Liturgy, in universities, courses, programmes and associations dominated by a 'liberal' and left-wing agenda within the Church."

And yet I don't believe this is true of either New Skete, our Liturgical Commission, or the scholars of the Pontifical Oriental Institute.

While New Skete's usages are not popular in the Orthodox Church, I don't think they have ever suggested anyone else adopt them.

I think their reform is a good case study because the it was completed while they were still Catholic and was based in large part on the scholarship of Archimandrite Taft's fellow Byzantine Jesuits, Fathers Juan Mateos and Miguel Arrnaz, but done on the Monks own initiative and becasue of the needs of their community.

In Christ,
Lance

Thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry if I reacted unfairly to your initial sentence.

Of course, taking the vesperal prayers in their proper places is not really an innovation, but is sometimes directed, in some books I have seen, especially at the service of the "All Night Vigil". This is an example of the flexibility which exists within the Liturgy.

I need to know more about the blessing with the candle, but restoring this rite to Great Vespers or Daily Vespers would be more of a change.

Elias

Lance,

The order you mention for Presanctified Liturgy (Psalm, 140, 141, 129, 116) is already a change for the Byzantine-Ruthenian Church from the received usage. The prayer of Ephrem from the end of the Ninth Hour has been appended to the beginning of the service and deleted from its customary place. The litanies between the Kathisma (called "Antiphons" in the Levkulic edition) have been removed in favor of an arbitrary division of psalms for each day of the week. This change in effect destroys the entire first part of vespers. The Psalm order you mention at Psalm 140 is in the received books but the received usage has always been to sing only the first two verses of Psalm 140 and those from 129 and 116 needed to intersperse the sitchera.

Moving the Prayers of Light to their proper place (instead of altogether during the singing of Psalm 103) is an example of possible restoration (but one that should be done, if done at all, with the rest of Orthodoxy). Jettisoning the litanies and moving Ephrem is an example of revision.

Regarding the "original way of doing things" who can pick the historical date of the perfect Byzantine Liturgy? Can those with a preference for such changes prove to us that the later additions and changes were wrong? They need to do so and all of Orthodoxy needs to act together should any changes be made. What a specific group of monastics has done to vespers is indeed worthy of a case study, but it is not worthy of imitation.

We should note again that Archimandrite Taft has not adopted any of the changes already mandated in some of our eparchies. He has also not recommended them to any other Church. It would be very interesting to actually see Rome's response to the new text and rubrics and I hope that it will be made public to all since the liturgy is the prayer property of all of us - people, deacons, priests, monastics and bishops.

Our liturgical services are already a masterpiece of wonderful balance between priest, deacon and people. We should embrace it and allow it to reform our lives. We should not allow our current whims to reform the liturgy.

Admin

"The whole idea of revising the Liturgy (or Vespers) seems to come from those who have "studied" Liturgy, in universities, courses, programmes and associations dominated by a 'liberal' and left-wing agenda within the Church"

I think you are right that there are many who simply want change for the sake of change. I have referred to this privately, as the "disease of Vatican II." I have also heard for years that the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist, is that you can reason with a terrorist.

Admin.

Below I post the order for Presanctified as done in Pittsburgh. Both Passaic and Parma have different orders so I post it for your comments. This service has all the deacon candiadtes confused because it seems none of the Eparchies do it the same. As far as the below goes all prayers are taken aloud in my parish, the complete opposite of Divine Liturgy.

Liturgy of the Presanctified as published by Msgr. Levkulic�s

Opening Blessing
Come let us adore�
Psalm 103
Litany of Peace
Psalm 120
Small Litany with Prayer
Psalm122
Samll Litany with Prayer
Psalm 127
Small Litany with Prayer
Psalm 140
Psalm verses for 3 stichera (starting at �For with the Lord there is mercy�)
Entrance Prayer
O Joyful Light
Prokimenon 1
Reading from Genesis
Blessing with candle (The light of Christ enlightens every man who comes into the world.)
Prokimenon 2
Reading from Proverbs
Psalm 140 (First 4 verses with verse 1 as congregational response with incensation)
Prayer of St. Ephrem
Litany of Supplication
First Prayer of the Faithful
Second Prayer of the Faithful
Now the powers of heaven�
Litany of Offering
Our Father
Prayer of Inclination
One is holy�
O Lord I believe and profess�
Communion Hymn
We give you thanks�
Litany of Thanksgiving
Ambon Prayer
Dismissal
Having endured the passion for us�

Father, bless! Some excellent points.

But dear ByzantTN, without Vatican II we would not have Orientalium Ecclesiorum, nor the movement towards a greater sense of sui juris autonomy.

Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Constitution on the Liturgy also has much to speak to us as Eastern Catholics as well..."full, conscious and active participation" and other gems are contained therein...

I for one thank God for Vatican II and the effect it has had on our churches. When the interventions of Patriarch Maximos IV Saigh, Metropolitan Maxim Hermaniuk, Patriarch Josyp Slipjy, Bishop Elias Zoghby and others are reviewed, their influence can be seen on the entire Catholic Church with regards especially to collegiality and this effect can even be seen in Lumen Gentium.

Sorry for going off topic momentarily, but blanket Vatican II bashing does not resolve any issues. Vatican II is not a cess pool that contains every harmful pathogen known to the Church. We have a long way to go, but I don't think I would see married pastors, have liturgical commissions and movements to de-latinize the liturgy or have a funcioning Synod in my Ukrainian Catholic Church without it.

Admin.,

You state:"Regarding the "original way of doing things" who can pick the historical date of the perfect Byzantine Liturgy? Can those with a preference for such changes prove to us that the later additions and changes were wrong? They need to do so and all of Orthodoxy needs to act together should any changes be made. What a specific group of monastics has done to vespers is indeed worthy of a case study, but it is not worthy of imitation."

I don't think you can pick a perfect date if there even is such a thing. I also don't think those who change are neccesarily saying the current way is wrong, just that there is a different way that is part of the tradition, ancient, and valid. I am not advocating imitating the New Skete usage but I do think it worth study.

You also state:"We should note again that Archimandrite Taft has not adopted any of the changes already mandated in some of our eparchies. He has also not recommended them to any other Church. It would be very interesting to actually see Rome's response to the new text and rubrics and I hope that it will be made public to all since the liturgy is the prayer property of all of us - people, deacons, priests, monastics and bishops."

Archimandrite Taft has stated, at least in his critique of New Skete's reforms, his job is only to critique them reform form an historical and liturgical standpoint. He leaves the decision whether the reforms are pastorally desirable or prudent to the Church authorities. So I would think his critique of our proposed reform was much the same: Could it be justified by historical/liturgical practice? It seems it did but I too would like to review Rome's response. Hopelfully it will be made available.

In Christ,
Lance

Lance,

The Presanctified Books published by Msgr. Levkulic are a masterpiece, in accordance with how we would celebrated and were a wonderful gift to the Church. Msgr. Levkulic will always be remembered as the priest who gave us back so many of our services.

The editions used in Passaic and Parma are not exact but are very close. The order of the revised version is as follows:

Prayer of St. Ephrem (from the end of the Ninth Hour)
Opening Blessing
Come let us adore�
Psalm 103
Litany of Peace
-The Traditional Kathisma psalms are all included, but arbitrarily divided into certain ones for each day of the week. While this does restore additional Scripture to the service it also means there is a different Presanctified for each day of the week. Parishes that celebrated the Presanctified twice a week and approximately 12-14 services throughout the Great Fast. Just enough for people to become familiar with these psalms and make them their own. Now, if these same parishes still celebrate twice a week, they essentially have two different services and simply do not become comfortable with it. I do not think it is very pastoral.
The Small Litanies with Prayers are suppressed ruining the delicate balance between deacon, priest and people.

Psalm 140
-The first two verses of Psalm 140 ("O Lord, I have cried..") are sung in the proper tone. The action then stops and one chants the remainder of Psalm 140, 141 and 129 in a tone similar to that of Psalm 103. Then, the sticheri are sung in their usual manner.

Psalm verses for 3 stichera (starting at �For with the Lord there is mercy�)
Entrance Prayer

O Joyful Light
Prokimenon 1
Reading from Genesis
Blessing with candle (The light of Christ enlightens every man who comes into the world.)
Prokimenon 2
Reading from Proverbs
Psalm 140 (First 4 verses with verse 1 as congregational response with incensation)
-In the Passaic edition the people kneel for the verses and then stand for the refrain "Let my prayer arise�." This might have made sense if a very elaborate melody for the refrain was used (like the traditional one in Boksaj) but it makes no sense and the people very clumsily go from kneeling to standing back to kneeling for each verse and refrain.

Prayer of St. Ephrem - The Prayer of Ephrem at this point is suppressed.

Litany of Supplication
First Prayer of the Faithful
Second Prayer of the Faithful
Now the powers of heaven� (but broken into the more traditional two parts)
Litany of Offering
Our Father
Prayer of Inclination
One is holy�
O Lord I believe and profess�
Communion Hymn
We give you thanks�
Litany of Thanksgiving (shortened to just the "Let us pray to the Lord" and the Prayer of the Litany).
Ambon Prayer
Dismissal
Having endured the passion for us� (suppressed for some reason).

Admin

"Sorry for going off topic momentarily, but blanket Vatican II bashing does not resolve any issues. Vatican II is not a cess pool that contains every harmful pathogen known to the Church."

I would have to agree that some good things have come out of Vatican II for the Eastern Churches. But as a Byzantine who works every Sunday in a Roman Rite parish, I probably see a side to the implementation of Vatican II that you don't experience. I think I can safely say that you really wouldn't like all the post-council Roman Rite craziness in your church.

Amen Admin! Someone had to jump off the high dive, so to speak, and the blessed efforts of Msgr. Levkulic especially in compiling the Presanctified text was a noble effort at returning to the authentic Lenten practice in the Ruthenian usage and getting away from the prevalent practice at the time of Stations of the Cross. Someone had to have the courage to, as the ad says, just do it, and Msgr Levkulic did it. Vichnaya pamyat.

[ 07-14-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

I'll go with you there, BynTN. Our experience has been different, I'll agree. The key is implementation, not the documents themselves. That's the bishops' problem, and shouldn't reflect on the often beautiful documents themselves.