www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Stand or Kneel?

>>>However, don't we already do this (and I am just wondering) with the Sacraments of Initiation, Marriage, Anointing, Priesthood?<<<

No, they most definitely are NOT rites of passage, though undoubtedly many people view them that way. Rather, they are mysteries that integrate us more fully into the life of Jesus Christ. Living in Jesus Christ is ALL that Christianity is about. These mysteries open to us in a symbolic manner those aspects of His life which are necessary for our salvation.

Actually, a rite of passage is defined by Merriam-Webster as "a ritual associated with a crisis or change of status (as marriage, illness, or death) for an individual." Do not the sacraments of initiation fit this description? Do they not symbolize (and effect) a change of status for the person involved? You say yourself that they are "mysteries that integrate us more fully into the life of Jesus Christ." This seems like a change of status to me. Besides, there are sacraments which correspond to the above examples of marriage and sickness/death.

Alex, aren't you a sociologist? You could probably give a better definition of a rite of passage than I could, but it seems that the sacraments are supernaturalized rites of passage to some extent.

Anyway, don't want to get too far off topic about standing or kneeling.

Dear Ignatius,

Your definition of a rite of passage is better than that of many a sociologist!

As a sociologist, I would certainly define the situation in this way:

Rite of Initiation into the Community:

Byzantine Church - Baptism + Crismation + Eucharist.

Roman Church - Baptism + 0 + 0

And insofar as the Sacraments of Initiation are a kind of personal "Passover" where we die, are buried and rise with Christ (the triple immersion of Baptism, for example), then this is truly a rite of passage, from darkness to light, from death to life etc.

It is most definitely a spiritual rite of passage, as you say, in the supernatural sense, although not in the natural sense conditioned by age.

This is related to this thread since I most certainly do kneel before your wisdom (beyond your years)

Alex



[This message has been edited by Orthodox Catholic (edited 05-24-2001).]