www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology John the Baptist - Why June 24?

Is there a reason why John's birth is celebrated on the 24, instead of the 25th, which would be six months before Our Lord's birth? Thanks for the assistance.

Dear Pax Tecum,

Et cum spiritu tuo!

One reason was the practical necessity of stamping out the then rampant pagan practice associated with midsummer night's eve that happened to be on June 24th - much like the fact that Christmas is on December 25th, the former festival of saturnalia.

In East Slavic lands, "Ivan Kupalo" celebrations such as jumping over campfires et al. continue to be practiced on St John's Eve.

Yesterday was St John the Baptist's Day according to the Old Calendar.

Alex

I know this is off topic, but seeing Alex's reference to the Old Calandar reminded me of this.

Every year the Greek Orthodox Church in Rochester, Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church, holds a Greek fest. Good food and music among other things.

During this multi-day event, you can take a tour of the Church. As many non-orthodox take the tour, the tour guide explains many things.

The one statement from the tour guide that Alex's comment reminded me of is this.

She stated that they follow the Old Calendar because this was the Calendar that Jesus followed.


David

Dear David,

And your point is . . .?

Alex

Ah the calendar...well this seems ridiculous at first glance but a closer look reveals something else.

The Romans adopted the "Julian Calendar" in 46 BC so the invading and occupying Roman forces would have followed that calendar in the time of our Lord. Of course, the Jews followed their own calendar.

Very few Greeks in the US are on the old calendar, and of those AFAIK only the ones who came in during SPYRIDON'S tenure from the Astoria group; perhaps the monasteries with ties to Elder Ephrem.

Is this really the only reason? I thought I'd heard a long time ago that it had something to do with a tradition that Saint John the Baptist's gestation period was a day less than nine months, and that this had something to do with his being cleansed from original sin in the womb before his birth. I don't remember the details, and was hoping someone here would know.

Actually, I understood that this was basically a Modernist atempt to discredit Christian practices, even though it has become widely accepted, even by many orthodox Catholics.

A lot of new research, however, seems to suggest the contrary; that this date was picked for very Christian, even Scriptural, reasons:

Are Christmas and Easter Pagan? [home.nyc.rr.com]

How December 25 Became Christmas: The Prophets Paradox [bib-arch.org]

Dear Pax Tecum,

Well, the gestation issue sounds like one of those "how many angels on the head of a pin" thingies - and such an explanation would have occurred centuries after the actual establishment of the feast of John the Baptist's Nativity.

The West believes that John the Baptist was sanctified in the womb of his mother at the TIME OF THE VISITATION by the Virgin Mary.

In fact, the Eastern Church has always believed John was sanctified at his Conception - for which reason we celebrate the feast of John's Conception - only the feasts of those who are already saints may be celebrated and the liturgical texts there certainly affirm that.

As for Christmas, the fact remains that Christmas and Epiphany were originally celebrated on one day and that they were divided only later to combat pagan influence via the saturnalia.

Armenia STILL celebrates Christmas and Epiphany on the same day, January 6th - something these "scholarly" articles don't really touch on adequately. Also, the contention that Christian liturgy was tied to exact historical timing - utter nonsense.

The fact is also that there are many pagan practices that were Christianized by the Church and given a Christian meaning, including the light seen three days following December 21st et al.

There is no "discrediting" of Christianity here, only that Christians did not destroy the culture they lived in - instead they chose to Christianize it.

There are those who cannot accept the Christianizing of once pagan practices.

And "Easter" is itself the name of a pagan deity. Eastern Christians ONLY use the term "Pascha" to refer to what Western Christians call "Easter."

That happened and continues to happen in new mission fields in Asia and Africa to this day.

Alex

What else?

The calendar used in the time of Christ was revised at the first ecumenical council: the date of the vernal equinox was shifted from March 25 to March 21 for better agreement with astronimcal observations being made, esp. in Alexandria. The calendar used by Old calendrists is not exactly the same as that of the Romans in the time of Christ.

AFAIK there were not more days added nor were any subtracted. Things were moved/corrected.

Then the so called Julian Calendar is not that? What is it then?

Yes. But what was changed is not exactly trival to those who find this type of things important.

http://www.holy-trinity.org/modern/calen3.html

This (Orthodox) site distinguishes:
The "ORIGINAL" JULIAN CALENDAR introduced by Julius Caesar dates from 44 B.C. " from the "The "OLD STYLE" JULIAN CALENDAR dates from AD. 325. " It has other interesting terminology, as well.

From the site you posted As far as I can see the only difference was the moving of the equinox The difference in the date of the equinox is the only difference I can see.

Dear djs,

That is a very important point, and a point that needs to be made!

The Old Calendar was "canonized" by the Church which is why we use it.

Alex

Tony: Yes, they changed the date for the equinox!!!

Alex, Pass the salt.

Dear djs,

Well, you are certainly worth YOUR salt . . .

Alex

Dear Friends,

There's an excellent explanation of the dating of both the Nativity of our Lord and that of His Forerunner in the book "Introducing the Orthodox Church" by Fr. Anthony Coniaris.

In a paragraph entitled "Scripture Woven Into Calendar," Fr. Anthony states:

Important Scriptural truths have been woven into the Church calendar. Take, for example, the words of John the Bapitst concerning his relationship to Jesus, "He must increase, but I must decrease" (John 3:30). The birthday of Jesus was fixed at December 25. This is at the beginning of the winter solstice after which the days grow longer, i.e., Jesus, the Light, has entered the world; He must increase. John the Baptist's birthday, on the other hand, was fixed on June 24 which is at the very beginning of the summer solstice, after which the days grow shorter, i.e., John was not the light; he must decrease. "He (John the Baptist) was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light" (John 1:8).

-Introducing the Orthodox Church pg. 75

So I think the original question was very perceptive. There is indeed a meaningful reason for the placement of the celebration of the Forerunner's Nativity on the Church's calendar.

Also, I think it is noteworthy that in the Eastern Church, only our Lord's gestation was a perfect 9 months. This is not a matter of scholastic exaggeration. The gestation issue indeed has symbolic meaning to it on the calendar.

St. Mary's Nativity is one day less than a perfect 9 months: December 9th (original date) for her Conception and March 8th for her Nativity. St. John's was one day more than a perfect 9 months: September 23 for his Conception and June 24th for his Nativity.

Only our Lord was a perfect 9 months. This is meant to point to the fact that Christ alone is our savior and the savior of all men. This includes even the Forerunner and the Theotokos who fall short of perfection without Christ.

Ofcourse, the Latins moved the Conception of the Theotokos from the 9th to the 8th of December, perhaps in order to emphasize their understanding of her perfection. Perhaps this is where some of the confussion begins between East and West over their respective understandings of the Theotokos? I'm sure this could be developed much better than what I have done, but there it is.

Trusting In Christ's Light,
Wm. DerGhazarian
Looys Kreesdosee
www.geocities.com/derghazar [geocities.com]