www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Those darn pews!

Dan,

ditto

-- John

A bit anecdotal...I still remember the times when we had gossips' row in the United Methodis Churches I served. Some of the older members, sorry to admit but most were women, would sit in the back pew and gossip the entire service. I'd occassionally shush them but it did little good. They'd be back at it in a few minutes. They were often so loud I could hear what they said not just that they were chattering.

I'm glad to say that I've not experienced that in our Church though sometimes we forget and talk too much as we are leaving at the end of liturgy. I think that thinning out the pews may have a positive effect upon such inappropriate behavior in the presence of the King of kings.

CDL

I have a question. If Christ himself sat down after he got up to read in the synagogue, why are you all against sitting down periodically?
-Wolfgang

If I might be so arrogant as to offer advice, I'd say, let all your arguments in favor of the elimination of pews be made known, but be prepared to accept the results. Personally, I hope to see a day when the Latin Rite returns to a complete and total restoration of Latin, even in the homily (NO, I'm just joking on that part) Realistically speaking however, I know the time isn't yet right.

You just think that you're joking. Pope Benedict XVI gave his first sermon the day after his election, at Mass in the Sistine Chapel - it was televised and I watched it live. Both the Mass and the sermon were entirely in Latin (the sermon was excellent, as one would expect from the mouth of Benedict XVI).

More, more!

By the way, sitting in a synagogue is appropriate - which makes the Christian practice of not having seating arrangements (except the cathedra of the Bishop, of course) all the more striking. For that matter, in a synagogue the priests (the Kohanim) are seated - facing the assembly - but stand and extend their hands over the assembly to give the blessing.

On a more light-hearted note, the Old Testament priests were required to blow on rams' horns on certain occasions, but I've not encountered any suggestion that this practice continued with the Christian priesthood! [Fortunately the horn, when in use for this purpose, was no longer attached to the ram.]

Fr. Serge

I suppose that fortune depends on perspective. The ram might not have been so pleased with the arrangement!

Does anyone know where I can read a history of pews (and the lack of them) in the eastern Christian tradition?

Is there any way to get rid of the pews but keep the kneelers? They make excellent footrests.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I believe the issues of pews, as well as all issues about anything liturgical should not be considered in a compartmentalized fashion. Rather each consideration (new translation, new music, etc.)should always be part of a comprehsensive or integrated consideration.

The point is not pews or no pews, but rather what is honest to the integrity, dynamism and rhythm intrinsic to Byzantine worship? The matter of pews is really a matter of whether or not the proper liturgical movements, ambvience, rhythm, gesture, acoustics, etc. are being permitted by a congruent architecuture and interior design. Having seating (preferably along the walls)for those who need it is perfectly appropriate but the emphasis should be on whether there is room for the candlestands, icon stands, processions, prostrations, etc. It is also a matter of being true to what liturgy is: the "work of the people." People need the appropriate room to do the "work" of liturgical worship. Liturgy is not a specatator sport. In fact a bit of "uncomfortableness" is actually good because it keeps one more alert, attentive and on edge, so to speak, in a good way: ready to "entertain" God, as it were and not be "entertained" ourselves.

When the liturgical space is properly opened up and the other aspects of Byzantine liturgy allowed to be and breath more authentically the liturgical experience is such that I guarantee will not allow you to revert back to wall-to-wall sitting. Our liturgical space, when properly done dones wonders for the children as well.

One of the most amazing things that a congregation will find is the DRAMATIC improvement in the singing. This only stands to reason because even physiologically speaking standing is the best posture for proper singing.

I cannot empasize enough that we have a liturgical life designed by great saints who had a great charsimatic gift for worship. The more faithful we adhere to what SAINTS have designed for us the more our Church will thrive.

--Fr. Thomas J. Loya, STB., MA.

Father Thomas states the truth so well. I especially agree that people, including I, sing better when standing. Things in life are very interconnected in cycles, one thing leads to another, This may be even a divine principle.

I think that latin should coexist with the language of the vernacular. I am very impressed with what Anglican Use Roman Catholic Churches have done In Texas. Our Lady of Walsingham for example, they have every tradition common to the high solemn latin mass, except they have it in english twice every sunday, and once on latin at 6 PM. I don't think the emphasis should be on latin, I think the emphasis should be on the traditions associated with a latin mass. Following the vernacular seems to be closer to the eastern traditions in my opinion. Although latin isnt so difficult to understand if you are fluent in romance languages.

What does this post have to do with pews in an Eastern Church??? I hate it when topics go astray. I thought this was an EASTERN forum...