www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Restoring Prosphora Traditions

It is my observation (and others may have different experiences--if so, please let us know) that one major difference still exists between many Byzantine Catholic jurisdictions and the practices of their Orthodox sister jurisdictions--that is in how we usually do not follow the prosphora traditions.

Some parishes distribute the "antidoron" at the conclusion of Divine Liturgy. Usually in the current Ruthenian tradition we distribute it as part of "mirovanije"--which actually is transferred from Vespers of a special feast. Strictly speaking, this is not the distribution of what is called "antidoron." Occasionally, someone will say that since we have frequent Communion and since "antidoron" means "in place of the gifts," it is no longer needed. Those Orthodox parishes which practice frequent Communion still distribute the "antidoron" at the end of Liturgy, however.

But, what is even more telling in refuting that view is that all Byzantine Orthodox parishes (at least the ones I've visited) distribute the blessed bread at the same time as Communion. You receive from the spoon and then you take a piece of two of the blessed bread from an altar server. This may be partially due to the strict fasting rules in most Orthodox jurisdictions. However, a beautiful tradition has developed in many Orthodox parishes with regards to this.

A couple of Sundays ago I visited my former Orthodox parish. It was the first time since I'd returned to the Catholic Church. I'd promised to visit occasionally but had not had a chance to do so. It was a bit awkward for me, of course. I didn't want to offend anyone there. At Communion time, everyone else went up and I was in prayer. Both the matushka and an old friend from the parish took some extra blessed bread and as they returned to their places gave me some as an expression of their love and friendship. It was most appreciated!

Since we are talking about restoring Eastern liturgical traditions...how about reviving the prosphora traditions in the Ruthenian Church?

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: DTBrown ]

Dear Dave,

My Antiochian Orthodox neighbour always brings me Antidoron after Sunday Liturgy.

(Is that allowed?)

I think the practice of saving the Blessed Bread for morning prayer during the days of the week is a most invaluable aid to devotion and we need our priests to explain all this, including, of course, all you said, to the people.

Alex

That sounds like a beautiful tradition, Alex!

An interesting resource is:

http://www.prosphora.org/

Go down and read the interesting article on that link entitled: "The abuse of pre-cut prosphora" from the CINEAST archives.

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

As I read this thread of restoration next to the other thread of innovation in the liturgy, I thought I might add a few notes.

To speak of restoring the tradition of Prosphora you must know that one is not supposed to keep some it to pass around after the services. One must fast to receive Andeethoron (phonetic spelling). In addition, one is not to receive it unless they are in communion.

So, even though you had a "pleasant experience" at your old church, I thought as long as you are talking about restoring a tradition, it might help to know that the people you are learning it from do not appear to be good examples.

Just a friendly note.

As a frequent visitor during my college years to the on-campus Orthodox mission's Sunday Divine Liturgy, the "matushka" (actually, she was a pani) would always bring me a handful of antidoron, even though I was a known "Uniat." (Then again, she was formerly a Uniat too!)

Hello Folks,

I have to very respectfully disagree with Orthodoxyordeath on his comments about the fact receiving antidoron limited to those who is in communion.

I am a Byzantine Catholic who goes to the Orthodox Church every Sundays. And I always receive antidorons from more than one people! Sometimes I'd make comments that I'm getting fat! LOL

But it's all about "breaking the bread" with people...to share Christ's love for us through genorosity and love from people who received Christ in Eucharist. It's all part of sharing love and fellowship that we have for one another.

It's a wonderful feeling to be part of the Church even though I'm not Orthodox. They have made me part of them and their families. I'm on the mailing list, I help serve their annual bake sales and Lebanese dinners, I go to their religion classes, etc. They KNOW that I'm a Byzantine Catholic. I'm every bit part of their lives and have been for many years.

The fact sharing antidorons is probably one of the most effective tools of bringing in people to God (mostly non-Catholic or Orthodox)...as in converts.

I do wish that the Byzantine Catholic Churches follow the example of the Orthodox Churches regarding to love and fellowship. Instead, many BCC have this "cold" attitude...mostly influenced by the Roman Catholics who tend to be cold to other people. Maybe cold isn't a nice word...perhaps more like "Anglo-saxons" rather than "Greeks."

I do wish that BCC is more loving, open and caring. And try their best to restore every ounce of tradition back to church...to de-latinize it completely...not stick with foreign languages,latinize traditions,latin-like attitudes...and not be so close minded. Then there would be more people coming....more growth of God's Church. But for right now...you would have to wonder why we are so small!

God bless.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Are there any Byzantine Catholic parishes which have restored distribution of the blessed bread *during* Communion?

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

From my understanding, OrthodoxyOrDeath is correct in saying that traditionally Antidoron is only given to people who have fasted.

This rule has been relaxed in most parishes and jurisdictions,(except by those who know better, of course).

I also understand that the antidoron given immediately after communion, in some cases including a sip of wine and warm water from a small cup, is to insure that all the Sacred Elements are swollowed.

An OCA priest told me that it is a Greek custom to take a portion of Antidoron home and to eat a little bit of it with a sip of holy water at the conclusion of morning prayers.

Thank you for the link about pre cut prosphora Dave!

With Best Wishes to All!
Stefan-Ivan

The Russian Catholic parish of St. Michael's in Manhattan has a tray with cups of wine that are set out as one returns from receiving the Holy Mysteries. Very nice practice, as is taking a piece of the Antidoron after morning prayers.

I guess from a practical view if Antidoron is really "instead of the Gifts" and one is receiving the blessed Antidoron precisely because they haven't fasted and prepared properly for receiving the Holy Mysteries (confession, Canons and Akathist for Communion, etc.) I don't get the fasting part. It's not the Holy Mysteries, after all.

And if you don't receive Communion, if you believe as Alexander Schmemann so brilliantly pointed out that the Eucharist is THE sacrament of the Church, of communion, then are you not in communion anyway, at least temporarily?

Just throwing that out.

[ 07-16-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

It's my observation that here is a situation where Greek and Russian practice diverge. As far as I know the Greeks do not have wine on a table to consume after one receives Communion as do the Russians. But, both do have the blessed bread at both Communion and at the end of Liturgy (the Russians have veneration of the cross--the Greeks usually receive the antidoron from the priest's hands).

I don't know where we Ruthenians would fall into this as far as the blessed wine goes. I don't know when that practice entered the Russian Church (perhaps after the Nikonian reforms?)

Since the distribution of blessed bread at Communion and antidoron at the end of Liturgy seems universal in Byzantine Orthodoxy shouldn't we at a minimum restore these practices as part of our liturgical renewal and reform (as well as lay participation in baking prosphora)?

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Is there any scholarly evidence that the distribution of antidoron either right after Holy Communion or at the kissing of the cross (which we unfortunately no longer practice) was ever done in the "Ruthenian" lands, i.e., Subcarpathia and Galicia? If there isn't, then we shouldn't be in such a hurry to do it now. Most of our people are completely unfamiliar with it -- except perhaps observing it in an OCA parish -- and there is so much else more important we need to work on.

Dave, we have had distribution of Antidoron and veneration of the Cross at most every Liturgy in my Ukrainain Catholic parish since I have been attending there (12 years at my current parish). During that time we have always also had parishoners prepare and bake the prosphora. The Ruthenian parish I attend occaisionally generally never has distribution of Antidoron or veneration of the Cross. I think this may be an issue of local variation as much as church- or eparchial-wide practice.

Our 1988 Liturgikon promulgated by the Synod of the UGCC specifies that Antidoron is to be distributed while Psalm 33 is sung before the final blessing, "The blessing of the Lord be upon you with His grace" etc. The deacon is to be consuming the Gifts while the priest is distributing Antidoron.

But most priests do it after the dismissal "for He is good and loves mankind" and distributes Antidoron while the Polychronion (Mnohaya Lita) and other closing hymns are sung.

I think you are right about the post-Nikonian development of the wine after Communion. I don't see any mention of it in my Old Believer texts. The distribution of the Antidoron in the Old Believer usage occurs after the final dismissal while a specific verse is sung by the cantor for the veneration of the Cross. The Post-Communion prayers are then read/chanted recto tono by the Reader.

I wouldn't say this is the most important thing we should work on...but this (and the minamalistic view we Ruthenians usually have about prosphora bread) are major differences we have from our authentic tradition.

It would seem strange that the both Greek and Russian practice would converge on the use of antidoron and somehow we Ruthenians never had it, wouldn't it? I've been told that the use of antidoron is not a Ruthenian practice. Such is not true. It's a practice we abandoned. See this description by Fr Petras on the CINEAST archives:

http://www.cin.org/archives/cineast/199706/0362.html

Also, the _Ordo Celebrationis_ (1944) refers to it on pp. 73-74: "Where it is customary, the priest comes out through the holy doors and distributes antidoron to the people, unless this is customarily done after the Apolysis." (This refers to the different traditions of *when* to distribute the antidoron--either right after the Ambon prayer or after the Dismissal...there are two different "customary" times. Whichever, that there was a distribution is a given.)

Sure, our people may be unfamiliar with this tradition as they are with many other things. This is something that catechesis should take care of as is the case with some other subjects (use of the term "orthodox," restoral of the Sunday of St Gregory Palamas, etc.) Unfamiliarity with something is not a reason to withold catechesis.

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Dear Lemko,

You raise quite the fascinating point that I've yet to come across on the topic of returning to Eastern traditions etc.

Our parish priest refuses to do the washing of the feet ritual on Holy Thursdays because that was not done in the Galicia of yesteryear with which he is familiar.

And that is the nub of the point.

Yes, we have an obligation to study our traditions and return to them.

But what about the living tradition of the people and the fact they are used to certain rites and rituals and their changing may lead to confusion and upset?

Alex

Dear Friends,

Yes, OOD is correct about the fasting before receiving the Holy Bread.

This is why Orthodox Christians traditionally keep this Holy Bread in a special place in their homes and have a piece of it in the morning following prayer, sometimes with a sip of Holy Water - and of course on an empty stomach.

The early Christians used to keep Holy Communion in their homes in this same way and give themselves and their family members Communion at home!

This was later forbidden due to the waning of the early devotion of the first Christians . . .

I thought that Daniil's parish of St Elias did this during the Liturgy.

I saw this at a Ukrainian Orthodox liturgy where the communicants were given warm water and the antidoron following Communion and having kissed the edge of the Chalice.

They then waited "in the wings" so to speak for the priest to come along with the Chalice and touch it to their heads as he moved toward the side altar or Proskomidiynyk.

Alex