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Don't know if this has been posted;
"Flower of Carmel, Tall vine blossom laden,Splendor of heaven,Childbearing yet maiden,None equals thee. Mother so tender,Who no man didst know,On Carmel's children Thy favors bestow. Star of the Sea,Strong stem of Jesse,Who bore one bright flower,Be ever near us,And guard us each hour,who serve you here. Purest of lilies,that flowers among thorns,Bring help to the true heart That in weakness turns and trusts in thee. Strongest of armor,We trust in thy might,under thy mantle Hard press'd in the fight,we call to thee.Our way uncertain,Surrounded by foes,Unfailing counsel You give to those who turn to thee. O gentle Mother,Who in Carmel reigns,Share with your servants That gladness you gained and now enjoy.
Hail, Gate of Heaven,With glory now crowned,Bring us to safety,Where thy Son is found,true joy to see ". ~ Composition ascribed to St. Simon Stock

james, with digit cramps

Brother James,
That is beautiful! Whether it has been posted before or not it is worth seeing again.

Glad you found the Official Avatar, La Bruna, Brother Alex found for us.

Headed to Mass.

Pray without ceasing....Michael ICCBF

Speaking of going to Mass ...

Do Third Order Carmelites in the Eastern Church HAVE to go to Mass/Liturgy daily or is there a variation of the rule to accommodate Eastern tradition?

I sound like a slacker asking this question but daily Mass is not possible for me some days and I was wondering how flexible the rule really is.

Thanks
Kevin

Dear Michael,

I did not answer your question from much earlier in this thread. My appologies for the late response.

What I was trying to say in my first post was that people who love Carmel would naturally love the Eastern Church. I'm shocked when RC's don't get excited about the EC. But then, not all RC's would be comfortable on Mt. Carmel. And that could be because Carmelite spirituality is not promoted in most parishes. Spirituality is an acquired taste hightened with practice. And few will practice if it is not even offered.

I think Mt. Carmel offers a lovely view of the east.

Kevin

Hello KC,
All things depend on availability and of course your own tradition. East, West or here on the ICCBF.
Pray without ceasing....Michael

Hi KC,
Sorry to be so short in my last post. We have been plagued with violent thunder storms for a few weeks and I wanted to post something before I unplugged.

You are absolutely correct in your call on most RC not being comfortable with the Eastern tilt of Carmel. Unfortunate!

As for fulfilling the requirements: a soul can't do what a soul can't do. If Divine Liturgy isn't available it isn't available. If it is available a soul should try to attend, provided that does not conflict with duties of state of life. And, of course, evey soul needs to be faithful to his or her own tradition. Common sense should be your guide.
Pray without ceasing...Michael ICCBF

It seems to me that this daily mass thing is a Latinization. Certainly, it hurts no one to go to a liturgy, but I think the familiarity has led to contempt in the West. I like the Eastern approach of thinking of the Divine Liturgy as a banquet, not a meal. It's a special event for special days, not a fast-food meal at McDonalds. That being the case, it's worth taking some time to prepare for it, not just drop in for a few minutes then leave. Divine Liturgy is the high point of the week.

Why would you assume that RCs do not take the time to prepare for the Divine Liturgy? This is the kind of generalization that judges another soul's spiritual capacity, needs and gifts. Speaking as an RC, I can tell you I prepare for the Liturgy with great anticipation and excitement and I go everyday.
Pray without ceasing...Michael

I don't doubt that you take it seriously. But I can look around when I go and see many who don't. You can see them reading, looking at the ceiling, whispering, and so on. I understand Pius X's encouragement to receive communion more often, since at that time receiving twice a year was closer to the norm. But I like the Eastern approach of Saturdays, Sundays, and Holy Days. This lets us prepare, but keeps us from doing it so often it becomes routine and a non-event.

I just know I'm going to get myself into trouble again, but.....

Please don't take offence, but I couldn't tell you what the soul in front of me does during Divine Liturgy if it meant winning the lottery. When I am in the Presence of the Holy, Mighty, Imortal One, my gaze is fixed only on Him.

I cannot understand how the Divine Liturgy (Sacred Mysteries if you will) could possibly become routine. I feel the Eastern Liturgy is MUCH more majestic than my own RC Liturgy, but even my own watered-down, PC version contains the Word in text and the Word in Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. "Routine and non-event"....

And I prefer to think of it as the high point of the day.
Pray without ceasing....Michael

I don't get lost in the mass. I am the church organist, so if I get lost, everyone else is lost. I have to stay alert and that means I see nearly everything. I think perhaps there is a difference between east and west here. In the west, the mass has seemingly become the only form of worship worth doing. And the point of the mass always seems to be to receive communion. I think it has worsened in the last 20 years with more and more sacraments folded into the mass to the point they are losing a bit of their distinct identities. In the east, the Divine Liturgy is not the only form of worship. We can attend Vespers instead of the Divine Liturgy, since the Divine Praises are just as worthy. The east looks through a different lens which is, of course, our eastern spirituality.

And that's what I LOVE about the East. In fact I'm a little envious.

Unfortunate, but very true. I suppose that's what led me to celebrating the Liturgy of the Hours in private in the first place. I would love to have Vespers and the other things you have but the average RC doesn't even know what Vespers is. Except the old RCs.

You have been blessed that your Liturgy hasn't been constantly updated. I think the East has a veneration for tradition and Tradition that has become lost in my Church.
In an effort to become all things to all men it has become a shadow and not true to itself.
Still, I hope...perhaps Benedict XVI....

Pray without ceasing....Michael

Charles that is the grace of your being at Holy Ressurection, you don't have to worry about the organ when you are there, you can just let yourself get lost awhile.

So very true! I often say I work with the Latins and worship with the Byzantines.

I have re-posted excerpts of Brother Alex's post for those souls with questions about requirements for membership in ICCBF who were having difficulty finding it in the thread.


"I think that, should our group really take off, we might petition the Administrator for a separate section for ourselves - together with a possible commitment from ourselves to make a yearly financial contribution to cover costs of maintaining the Forum or something like that (Is this not fair?).

Perhaps each member of this community who would wish to belong to our community of Mt Carmel, could have an ID of some sort with "Carmelite" in it or a number.

I would suggest that membership in our Internet Carmelite Community (ICC?) would be open to Catholics and Orthodox alike.

The Scapular would be the outward sign of our commitment to the spirituality of Mt Carmel with an emphasis on its Eastern well-springs especially!

Anyone who is not a member of our Carmelite community here may, of course, participate in the discussions and offer their own perspectives on matters, such as Photius has (and he is, of course, always welcome to join it, if he would like).

Our focus would be on the Mother of God of Mt Carmel, on her who pondered on the Word of God, keeping all these things in her heart, on liturgical prayer of the Divine Liturgy and the Hours (each according to one's own tradition), on the Psalter, on the Jesus Prayer and the Rule of the Theotokos and all manner of prayer, as time and circumstances permit, especially intercessory prayer (and intercession for the intentions of the Prayer section here).

Then there is spiritual reading and learning more about the Way of the Lord from others here, following suggestions for spiritual reading and sharing difficulties we have in the spiritual life (without compromising our privacy etc.).

Alex
ICCBF (Internet Carmelite Community of the Byzantine Forum

To called souls:
I have posted this letter from our brother Alex onto this Forum so that all souls interested in the Internet Carmelite Community on the Byzantine Forum (ICCBF) can see our purpose and basic requirements to bring Glory to the Holy Imortal One, and honor to the Theotokos under her prerogative of Our Lady of Mount Carmel.
Pray without ceasing...Michael ICCBF"

Pray without ceasing....Michael ICCBF