www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Who is in communion with the Orthodox?

In all the various Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions, is a sharing in Holy Communion common practice? That is, do Greek Orthodox, Antiochian, OCA, ROCOR, etc. and all the various nationalities share in Communion with one another? Are any particular traditions out of the link? For instance, if a Greek Orthodox person travels to a place where only a ROCOR parish is available, can he receive Communion there? Are practices similar in all traditions? If this is not a politically insensitive question, is there a general consensus that some Orthodox jurisdictions are more modern/liberal and others are considered more traditional/conservative in their worship practice? There is a broad range of worship practice in the Latin Rite, ranging from parishes with many liturgical abuses, violation of rubrics, etc. in parishes that would hop on the "women priests" bandwagon in a heartbeat, all the way to those who worship only in the Tridentine rite, and everything in between. In addition, there is the Society of St. Pius X, which is considered schismatic by Rome, and is therefore, not in Communion. Does the Orthodox church have a comparable situation?

Dear Still, small voice,

I know that as a Greek Orthodox, I can receive the Eucharist in any SCOBA (Standing Conference of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of America)jurisdictional church.

They are:

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Albanian Orthodox Diocese of America
American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the USA
Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of New York and All North America
Serbian Orthodox Church in the United States of America and Canada
Romanian Orthodox Missionary Episcopate in America
Bulgarian Eastern Orthodox Church
Orthodox Church in America

I don't know about ROCOR. Maybe one of the very enlightened posters here can clue me in as well!

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

Within Orthodoxy there are churches that allow communion from one side only. That usually is the case for ROCOR and Old Calendarist members seeking communion elsewhere. The OCA will permit ROCOR communicants, but ROCOR will usually not permit OCA members to commune in their churches.

It is considered good etiquette to see the priest in advance, because he believes he is personally accountable for the worthiness of his flock at the Cup. Otherwise, he may ask you if you are Orthodox or from ROCOR before letting you receive. Orthodox priests can and do turn away persons seeking communion if they are unclear of their status.

Old Calendarist churches see any tampering with the church calendar without full council approval as heretical. There are sometimes 3 year catechumenate programs prior to being received by chrismation as well. Their communion requirements would be as stringent as ROCORs.

It is well to ask the ROCOR or other parish priests what their practice is, as priests do decide for themselves in Orthodoxy on occasion.

In addition to Alice's post, I second the importance of contacting the priest beforehand, even in the above-named jurisdictions, as the priest is responsible before God for determining that those he communes are in canonical good standing with the Church, and many are strict as to practices.

In many cases, particularly in Slavic traditions, priests will not commune you unless you have been to confession the evening or morning before. In other cases, they will not commune you if you have not been to Vespers/Vigil the night before. So even though you may be "In Communion" with a church, it does not follow that the same rules (or lack thereof) apply from your home parish to the one you may be visiting, and if you are a visitor, it is always wisest, when possible, to call in advance, introduce yourself to the priest, and ask what his rules are.

Many people consider this unduly strict, but as any priest can tell you, they often have Protestants, Catholics, and even ethnic Jews approach the chalice in Orthodox Churches, and therefore MUST ask who people are. Sadly, Orthodox under excommunication will also try to commune where they are not known, hence the further insistance on canonical good standing.

Gaudior, much travelled.

The previous posters have answered the very question well.

As an Orthodox in a SCOBA jurisdiction, I've sometimes felt "bad" for the celebrant, even in a SCOBA-affiliated parish; I felt "bad" that I might "put him on the spot" by approaching the chalice without having spoken with him in advance. Because I hadn't made the effort to consult with him in advance, I just stayed away from the chalice, even though prepared (at least according to my own jurisdiction).

This is not the ideal, but it respects the community and the celebrant while allowing me to do my part. We don't have to commune at every eucharistic offering in order to be full members of the Church.

After getting acquainted with that community and celebrant I felt less akward when approaching the chalice and they also seemed overjoyed to know that I was part of the family.

In Christ,
Andrew

Do Catholics also have such strict rules in the States?

In the case of the Orthodox it's understandable because as a small minority, an unknown person approaching the chalice is most likely a non-Orthodox.

However, unless it's a public sinner or the priest exlicitly knows he has not confesed, it seems exagerated to ask so many questions and all that stuff. Why would a non-Orthodox approach for communion? Here most Catholics would not do so in a church which is not Catholic, although many Orthodox do receive communion in Catholic parishes.

Hi Mexican!

Probably, but as a practical matter it could not be applied most of the time.

In the first place the Catholic parishes are huge in the urban areas, the typical Roman Catholic priest would not even know if a person coming to confession was actually a Catholic, and I would bet that every Sunday a Roman Catholic priest will commune several people they have never seen before. Since lay eucharistic ministers are common the priest has almost no control over whom is taking communion, it has to be on the honor system.
I agree with you that most Catholics would not consider approaching communion in a non-Catholic church, it is uncharacteristic. I could imagine that someone knowledgeable about Orthodoxy might try out of curiosity but I think most people would not risk a public rebuke and the resulting embarassment.

Nevertheless I see this care by the priest as a sign of the high regard the Orthodox have for the eucharist, and as long as they are not building mega-churches they should be able to continue as they have been.

Michael

Mexican,

First, Orthodox may be a "small minority" in the country, but are a large enough group in serveral areas that many towns have large churches with several thousand families each. And that in a single jurisdiction, for example, GOA. Side by side you would have Ukrainians, OCA, Antiochians, Copts, etc.

Second, MANY protestants try to commune. They feel as Christians they should not be excluded, and do NOT respect Orthodoxy.

Next, as you pointed out, you have noticed Orthodox communing in Catholic Churches, which while permitted by the Catholic Church, IF the Orthodox Church allows it, is NOT allowed by the Orthodox Church for its faithful, so that those Orthodox who did so broke the rules of THEIR church. So, you see, many people WILL commune where they are NOT supposed to. That, of course, is to their judgment.

However, it is the priest's responsiblity to discreetly question those he does not know to be Orthodox Christians in good standing. Often a priest can tell during the course of the Liturgy...he makes note of those who are doing their cross in the Catholic manner, for instance...or those unduly lost...which could include the Christmas and Pascha Orthodox, for certain! :rolleyes:

Many are turned away at the chalice very discreetly, without the congregation ever being the wiser.

But often in regards to churches who require the faithful to have been at Vespers/Vigil the night before...well, if you show up to commune, and are from an outside jurisdiction that is not noted for having Vespers (for instance, a Greek communing in a Russian parish) you must expect the question, WERE you at a Vespers/Vigil the night before? It is only proper and right that you be so held accountable with everyone else.

In which case, no offense should be taken. But, sadly, many do try to commune where they ought not to be, Mexican. Sometimes, in ethnic Russian parishes, in the USA, Russian Jews visit for the language...and the fellowship...and HAVE attempted to commune.

The priest must answer before God for his guardianship of The Body and Blood of our Lord. Period. Sadly, not enough people respect that. Whether Orthodox among Orthodox, or other jurisdictions.

Gaudior, making a judgment, have mercy upon me!

Gaudior makes some interesting points about additional requirements for communion not known to Catholic believers but practiced by some Orthodox. Going one step further, I an reminded of an incident where a visiting Russian Orthodox priest asked a local rector how anyone could approach the Cup if they had not been to Vespers and gone to Confession the day before, then attended Matins that morning, prior to attending Divine Liturgy. That was the custom where he came from. It also explains indirectly how some long-time Orthodox attend services regularly but only go to communion a few times a year.

Jim, that infrequent Communion practice among some Orthodox (most notably Greek Orthodox) has different roots. It falls under the heading of "My grandmother says to Commune four times a year, so no matter what that priest says, that is what I do."

The practice (Usually the four times are the Nativity, Pascha, The Dormition of the Theotokos, and the Saint's Day of the person communing...)evolved during the centuries of the Turkokratia (Turkish Occupation) in Greece, where attendance at every Divine Liturgy was dangerous for the Orthodox faithful, and may have resulted in them being killed by the occupying government if found to be practicing Christians.

As a result, the faithful were granted an "ekonomia" a relaxing of rules concerning their attendance at Divine Liturgy, in order that their lives not be endangered, yet in order that no laxness of approach be taken toward communing, many priests began to link fasting and communion. Prior to this, there was no canonical link between the two, beyond the need for a fast before reciving that morning. Fasting was a canonically ordered issue on its own, regardless of whether one intended to commune. There was no link. Yet a link began to be forged around that, with some priests saying for the infrequent communers that they needed to fast for three weeks prior to receiving...in order to emphasis the importance of the act of reciving the Body and Blood of our Lord.

Obviously, as we are called to recieve Communion at EVERY Divine Liturgy we are not canonically barred from doing so by some other impediment, a three week fast prior to receiving in this day and age makes no sense...but for the times, it was a means used by some priests to evoke the solemnity of the act. As the Turkokratia only ended in 1825, and Greeks who were children then were raised by their grandmother's traditions, and in turn passed those to their grandchilren, the grandmothers of the 1950s...well..it may take a bit to get that out of their systems.

That goes a bit more toward explaining infrequent communion among Greek Orthodox, as most Greek Orthodox do not have Vespers, and Confession is not a major requirement of communing in Greek Orthodox Churches. That is much more an requirement of Slavic piety.

Gaudior, who has spoken volumes more than you needed to know....

Actually, though Gaudior's GO background is interesting, it doesn't explain the practice of infrequent communion among some of the Slavs, Russians and Serbs in particular. Some only go through all the prerequisites for Pascha and Christmas.

There I think confession has another problem, at least among immigrants; the "informant" nature of former Soviet-block countries. I believe that in order to reaccustom people to the sacrament, the concept of General Confession was reinstate among these groups, but is rapidly becoming phased out in many parishes. Many still believe that their confessions will not remain private, though.

Gaudior has eloquently explained the reasons for infrequent communion in the Greek Orthodox church. My priest likes to call that hand me down (from Turkokratia) theology 'yiayialogy'! :rolleyes:
(YiaYia meaning grandmother in Greek)

He has also been trying very hard to undo that 'yiayialogy' which runs deep in some of the Greek Orthodox community.

I have also heard it said that among Antiocheans resistance to private confession stems from privacy violations in the past back in the middle east. Additionally, there are supposed to be areas within the Greek community outside the U.S. where only certain priests may be authorized to hear confessions, based on their training.

The informant fear among the Slavs is news to me, however, but doesn't come as a surprise, considering the former ties to the KGB. The Slavs I know who seldom take the sacraments are not necessarily from the old country, however, but are regular participants in services otherwise.

All these idiosyncracies help the Roman Catholic worshipper appreciate just how fragmented the faith can be, I suppose, even among those in the East. Though many Orthodox jurisdictions have intercommunion, differences are sometimes so significant that folks from one jurisdiction prefer to worship privately rather than go to another jurisdiction's parish.

Jim, again, I would like to correct that.

Most Eastern Orthodox are aware that they can receive communion in another's jurisdiction, but unless they have tried, are unaware of the "niceties", shall we say, of the requirements between the different jurisdictions, or even the slight liturgical variences.

It is an "ETHNIC" issue for most "cradle" Orthodox...GREEKS go to GREEK parishes, SLAVS to SLAVIC parishes, etc...you seek what you are comfortable with. Typically, if someone is travelling, they will, if in a smaller jurisdiction with sparser churches, let their priest know in advance, or check online before they go...within their Archdiocesan district. Next up is who is closest to that tradition...therefore, Greeks usually look to the Antiochians, as having the similarity of Byzantine Chant with which they are familiar, rather than the OCA, with its Kyivan chant, or the Ukrainian Orthodox, who are notoriously not English speaking in the Liturgy. Further, there is that tiny problem caused by the fact that SCOBA has yet to mandate that all parishes list in the yellow pages under ONE heading (then as many alternate as they please)...So, Gaudior knows of several towns containing several Orthodox churches, neither of which are in the Yellow pages...so unless you know them, you don't know they are there.

This may be another reason people rarely move from one jurisdiction to another, to visit and become familiar. Just a thought. Generally, it isn't knowing too much and being afraid of not meeting the complainace rules, but of totally never having stepped from one's own circle into another's.

Gaudior, trying politely to tell people they've missed an awful lot this way. :rolleyes: