www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Are Most Priest Homosexuals?

I'm not anti-roman, but I think that the East has avoided this problem because the west and its obligatory celibacy generated false vocations. On the contrary, the churches of the East ordain mature married men to priesthood, and those who have true monastic vocations go to the monasteries.
I'm sure that one day the Roman church will have to accept the prdaination of married men in order to solve this problem (recently the Roman church accepted that some priests have been child molestors)

I sympathise with the sentiments which Alex has so eloquently expressed, as well as those of others with similar experiences. When someone asks me if I want to be a priest, I don't say yes or no, but say that I leave it to God. Many tell me not to, since "it will make you gay". Others, even those closest to me, question whether or not I am a homosexual already, even for entertaining the idea...usually after a while, people realise I most certainly am not, but some are tougher nuts to crack.

These things are a cause of pain to me, and I'm sure to others, as Alex has given witness to. On the one hand, I don't want to be perceived as something I'm very much not. On the other hand, I feel like I might be being drawn to a clerical vocation, regardless of others' opinions. I must say that it doesn't have much of a role in my vocational discernment, as I regard it as simple ignorance on the part of others. Nevertheless, it is something that could affect one's ability to minister to others properly. It also serves as a big deterrent to people who may have a vocation...it prevents them from being able to embrace what might be a calling, and that is a shame.

Alex's experience with having to turn his head away at ordinations is one I also share whenever I go to one. It's a mix of feelings, really...part of it is a desire to put thoughts of a vocation out of mind, something which an ordination doesn't really allow you to do...and on the other hand, it's a desire to have it all now. Go figure. It's very confusing, and I will re-live these feelings shortly after Pascha.

Sorry if this post isn't as organised as I try to make my posts...everything that this thread speaks of or refers to has given me much to think about, esp. in the past couple of weeks, and my feelings are very jumbled.

Dear Mother Sharon and Brother Phil,

Thank you for your kind comments and wishes.

I've had a good cry over this and am ready to get back to work!

I'll be with you in spirit tonight, Mother Sharon.

Some times one can't recite enough Psalms in a day.

Alex

Reme, can you quote authoritative statistics for the East that lead you to this conclusion? The published research indicates that this problem exists at the same percentage rates regardless of faith group. Since Eastern Christians are a minority in the United States there will be fewer numbers in absolute terms and this is only to be expected. As I stated in my earlier post, this problem occurs at similar rates in Churches with married and single clergy and is statistically similar among married clergy as they are among non-married clergy and across all faith groups.

I am aware that at least one of the larger Orthodox jurisdictions in the United States is currently in the process of implementing the same process of dealing with pedophilia as was developed by the Diocese of Fall River and refined by the Boston Archdiocese. While I think that the Boston Archdiocese has done too little too late they are at least sharing what they have learned in how to deal with this situation with other Churches. This is to their credit.

Alex,

Thank you for sharing your story. It heart warming to know that you aren't the only one going though a certain experience, even when that experience is a negative one.

At this time, I haven't really shared my vocation ideas with my family or friends outside of you great people here and those at another catholic forum I am a member of.

I think my mother is getting suspicious, what with all the retreats I have been going on and my visits to a certain priest friend in Pittsburgh.

But my mother's comments about how all priests are gay. How she says that only a homosexual would want to be a priest, that the priesthood was/is a place for gay men to hide.

It is very hard on me right now and I am getting discouraged.

Your brother in Christ,
David

Dear Friends,

I had to come back and share something else.

I've always thought my wife to be against me entertaining any thoughts for the Priesthood etc.

I have a priest-friend whom I had the pleasure of working with, sharing with him what spiritual resources God has blessed me with in terms of books, articles, what have you.

When he got ordained as a married priest, my wife and I attended. I turned away again hoping Tanya wouldn't notice.

I had told my friend all about our Orthodox saints and their cult. I've told you often enough and I thank you for never telling me I bore you with those stories!

During the dismissal, my friend included about ten Orthodox Saints and then winked at me standing to the side.

I smiled . . .

Then his Presbytera came by to hug us and said, with a boastful (and rightly so) attitude, "We have a great young priest!"

To this, my wife said, "Well, he had a great teacher!" The Presbytera paused for a moment, wondering what that was all about.

I smiled . . .

On the way home that evening, following the festivities, my wife was pensive, looking straight ahead, knowing I was grateful to her without saying so . . .

I was still smiling . . .

God bless you Servants of Christ our God!

Alex

Admin,

Either A. you did not read my post or B. you and many on this forum can NOT seperate pedophilia with Homosexuality. I at NO time ever wanted to go off on a discussion of pedophilia. Pedophilia has NOTHING to do with this topic.

What I would like to see discussed in this thread:

1. The article I posted (from a conservative Catholic source) suggested that a majority of priest are Homosexuals. Do you believe this to be true? If so why? If not Why Not?

2. If we can not come up with and absolute to the question of whether or not a majority of priest are Gay are there any other ways we might come up with a resolution to the question?

3. Why is there a bias toward associating Priest as Gays?

etc etc etc....

Dear David,

I can well empathize with you.

My mother was against me even entertaining any thoughts of the priesthood.

She would ask my brother to get on my case, and it was he who, unfortunately, used the "Gay" label on me - "You want to be a priest? Are you Gay or something?"

Today, my mother understands that I probably would have made not too, too bad of a churchman of some sort .

Mothers like to see grandchildren.

Perhaps you could be a married priest and keep everybody happy!

Alex

Okay, as the moderator I'm going to weigh in here...

First, I agree with Fr. Elias that this topic skirts right along the edge of what is acceptable. Because of the tenor of the discussions I've not said anything, nor taken action to close the discussion.

I am concerned that this could be misconstrued, however, and for that reason I suggest that we do as the Administrator has suggested -- focus on a specific aspect of the original question.

For what it's worth, I do not believe that there is a large number of homosexuals in the priesthood. This is based upon my association with priests from many different parts of the country over a lifetime of being Catholic.

Edward, deacon and sinner

Dear Friends,

I applaud the Moderator, whom I mistook for Fr.Elias earlier, and I apologize to the Reverend Father Deacon Ed - whom I ask to bless me!

Let me throw in another thought here and that is that I believe that a lot of this anxiety over "homosexuality" is also connected with a societal problem involving men having difficulty relating to other men in relationships other than ones related to violence or competition.

It's O.K. for women to be "pals" but men have to compete in sports, fight, argue or else go out on a night on the town to participate in dubious and often immoral amusements.

The artificial male construct of our society seems to present an image of the male as someone incapable of tenderness, feeling and emotion. Men aren't supposed to cry or express their hurt feelings. Men have to appear with their "tough guy" image.

I would suggest that this fake image of what men are about is a large part of the problem of why men have difficulty relating to women, their wives and even sexual dysfunction.

Men aren't John Wayne sex machines ready to pull out their six-shooter as a passive phallic symbol.

Male identity is something we men need to rediscover, so messed up it has gotten to be in recent times.

Or so I see it . . .

Alex

RC@Work,

The first seven paragraphs of the article you quoted discussed pedophilia. You chose to quote these paragraphs. Homosexuality was not mentioned until the ninth paragraph. The link to the article shows that the subtitle clearly indicates that the major focus of the article is pedophilia. Yet you titled the article to discuss homosexuality in the priesthood without placing your questions in any context whatsoever. And later in your posts you, along with other participants, discussed both pedophilia and homosexuality.

See how important it is to clearly state your intention for beginning a thread?

Administrator

Alex I never said pedophilia and homosexuality were the same thing. I notice that it seems to be a common practice on this forum *add* things to persons arguments or comments that are not there. This is infact unacademic if we are infact trying to be academic.

Nor did I ever blame celibacy. Assumptions are used on this forum as fact. Fact is I have always and still support Latin celibacy for the Priesthood. Infact I have contemplated a vow of celibacy in my own secular life for the future.

The question is does the Priesthood have a very real problem with pedophilia and is that pedophilia predominatly of the heterosexual orientation or of the homosexual orientation? Another question that has nothing to do is - does the Latin Priesthood have a large population of homosexuals. As I have stated in my previous post I think active homosexual Priests are preferable to active heterosexual Priests. So before anyone feels the need to add anything to my posts or comments that aren't there please don't or ask me for clarification.

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A critque my brother has of me is that ever since I came out of the Marines I know how to do nothing half way. And this is the misunderstanding many on this forum have of me when it comes to Catholicism. It is not that I attack problems in the Church because I say "what the hey" there's nothing else better to do. But that if Catholicism is to be the way I go, I am to be either loyal to it with all of me and with all I've got or not to be loyal to it at all.

As it is right now I don't know if Catholicism/Christianity is the *truth* and the way I'll continue to go. Many laity many years back failed to take notice and action when the Cross was spread throughout Peru by Fransico Pizzaro and his conquest of Peru. And I will no longer participate silently as the Cross is now spread by Priest who rape our children. I fail to see the action of Christ in that or my supposed *loyalty* to the Church.

A telling circumstance is that one of the Priest in my cousins high school was found to have his walls covered with pictures of nude boys. In the Corps which is highly homophobic I would not dare nor would any other Marine to put pictures of nude men up on the walls of our room. Lest you be identified as a homosexual and thus taken to task phycologicaly if not physicaly. The mere fact that a Priest can be care free about posting his pictures of nude boys on the walls of his room tells me he certainly did not have a fear of *Inquisition*.

No matter if you don't like it or if every other member on this forum or in the Catholic world would hate me - if I was of any authority I can assure you would fear to tread the ground of the Priesthood if you where a pedophile prior to stepping one foot into the seminary. I was bent and broken in the Corps and once I picked up rank I bent and broke others, but my job was not to ignore pedophilia within my ranks, but lionize those under me... and that is what I set out to do.

J Thur, yes I for one believe all men are potential rapists.

Step away for a little while and you really can miss alot!

The topic, I guess, is the original article which has been edited to exclude the anti-semitic comment made by the author. On that point, I would object. I think we have a right to know that the source of these negative opinions towards gay people holds similiar views towards Jews. Speaking for myself, I am not surprised.

From my years in the Catholic Church, I would guess at around a third to half of priests are constitutional homosexual, though the majority of them sexually inactive with others.

I think the Vatican spokeperson's statement was extremely unwise. I don't care to debate the merits of the statement, but when your organization has been insuffiently prudent in policing itself, it is time to stand up and take the heat, not try to shift the blame in a weasally fashion (can I say that?).

We have a good number of gay priests and a couple of bishops in the American Orthodox Church as well.

In my experince, having socialized with a large number of gay people, lay and clergy, Orthodox and Catholic, I don't think our opinions are uniform enough for us to be part of any great scheme.

Axios

Axios,

I can assure that NO anti-sematic statements were made by me the Author.

God Bless!