www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Converting to Orthododoxy

Hello again everyone, peace be with you all!

Firstly, Athanasius, I feel I should clarify something. I said the filioque simply out of impulse, as it is merely a secondary issue for me. As far as it isd concerned, I think it should be removed permanently from the creed of the east and the west, not just for ecumenical politeness, but because it is really not a theological expression anymore, but a bad memory.


The real reason for my conversion is Christ, to respond to common thought that this is an issue that is alien to Christ. If anything, this is the most important decision related to Christ I could ever make. The fact of the matter is as follows, there is one Church, The Catholic and Orthodox apostolic Church. The issue is that I feel called to the east. I would like to have the one Church acting as one again, but I feel that the eastern Catholic Churches are not the way the Lord is calling me to make this reunion possible. I feel as though in my current situation I am too proud, too arrogant. The more I think, the more I realise that this sin stems from the pride I developped under the jurisdiction of the pope and my apologetics against protestants. I need to be out of the battlefield, in the east where I think I will find neutrality, despite Orthodoxy own problems. I just look at Orthodoxy and see, despite its own series of problems, the Christianity Christ is calling me to, the place where I am to be of ultimate service to the Lord.

This is just what I have contemplated out of the situation.

Otherwise, I went out to my local Greek Orthodox Church only to find that it was closed at that moment and nobody anwers it phone, despite the fact that its answering machine is full! You can imagine how frustrating that is. Anyways, there is a host of other Orthodox Churches here, is there anyone else who is from the Windsor-Essex county region (Southern Ontario, Canada) out there? Can anyone of you help me out in this regard. I would like to go Greek ORthodox, because I feel like I don't fit in with slavic cultures. The closest thing I could find to a Greek Orthodox Church was Macedonian, but I know they're not the same. Also, I plan on going to the local Serbian Orthodox Church in order to experience a truly traditional liturgy. Anyways, I know the serbian group is highly exclusive, so I know my stay would only be temporary.

Finally, (yes, finally) might anyone provide any resources for me on my journey to Orthodoxy? I already have www.goarch.org [goarch.org] and www.oca.org [oca.org] .

I have told my parents what they think, needless to say, they were freaked ("we made a promise to raise you Catholic!), but I think I can explain to them the Orthodox Church, I'm sure they'll eventually understand.

Thank you all for your support and for your help and prayers.

In Christ,
-Justin,archsinner

p.s. the Church I attempted to contact is Holy Cross Greek Orthodox Church, in Windsor, Ontario

Dear Friends in Christ,

Our whole liturgical day (24 hours) for Orthodox Christians is focused on Christ. We often repeat: Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have mercy on me a sinner!

At the Divine Liturgy, it is Christ Who is invisibly present.

Yours in Christ,
Fr Serafim

In fact the practice of the re-baptize was frequent among conservative circles, (as far as I know the Serbian Church never allowed the re-baptizing of the Croatians who married Serbian girls).
They now re-chrismate catholics (and Armenians) who become Orthodox because the Sacrament of the Confirmation has been lost in the modern western Church (since it's only prescribed to people over 15, as a protestant influence), but if you were previously chrismated in a latin parish after baptism, I don't think they need to re-chrismate.
Maybe if you want to be priest, they need to reafirm your status in an more "complete" way.

About the filioque, it's thought that the Spanish Bishops put it in order to "correct" some remains of the Arrian heresies that were common among the new converts. The curious things is that the Popes of Rome were always opossed to its existence in the Creed, until the Frankish forced them to make it official.

Yes, Remie, that was what I was refering to, it should not be in the creed anymore as it has no longer a purpose nor canonical support.

Father Seraphim, wisdom shoots from your mouth as always, Bless me most reverend father!

in Christ,
-Justin

Justin,

Welcome to Orthodoxy, brother.

Axios

Thank you axios, your welcoming is most kind.
I have contacted the local Antiochene Church about conversion and I will see where I go from there. Thank you all fo your support

-Justin

Dear Catholic Servant86:
Justin:
May you continue to seek God's Face throughout your conversion. Do not worry about what others may think about your decision to embrace Orthodoxy. You do not have to defend your journey - and it is a "process" - not a definitive moment online! Your decision is very much between you and your God. Others may inquire, and out of hospitality you may tell them your story. But do not let a charitable spirit ever prevent you from "telling the Truth" when it needs to be told. Especially when it comes to proclaiming Justice and Truth.

Case in point. My story. I'll be very brief. I was raised in a Protestant denomination - and a liberal one at that. I was also sexually abused by my maternal grandfather and my biological father. I was spiritually lost throughout most of my 20's but came to conversion after hearing about Medjugorje. I converted to Roman Catholicism in 1994 at the age of 30. I felt I had "come home" and never imagined I would ever leave.

When news of the sex abuse scandals among the Roman Catholic clergy and the conspiracy of the network of Catholic Bishops who tried to cover it up, broke - I was furious! Granted I am an incest survivor so this issue affects me perhaps more deeply than most. In any event, I was encouraged when Pope John Paul II made the public statement that, "there is no place in the Church for any Priest or Religious who harms a child." I was thankful that The Holy Father took a zero tolerance stance on this issue.

I waited for the American Conference of Bishops to follow his lead - but they compromised with a water-downed version of their original document.
I believe they have failed us morally!!! As leaders.

As a victim of sexual abuse, I was in a dilemma. I could no longer tithe to a Church or respect a body of Clergy that failed to protect the most innocent within its' Body.

To compound matters, I am engaged to be married and my fiancee and I have already booked a Roman Catholic Cathedral for next May!

I prayed - fasted - and prayed some more. I also cried alot. I was grieving the Church I had known and loved and been a part of for 8 years. But in the end, my conscience would not allow me to remain within the Roman Rite.

I still consider myself a "Catholic" in Faith and Theology but can no longer condone the actions taken - and not taken - by the hierarchy.

I met with a Byzantine Catholic Priest who warmly accepted me and listened to my story. My fiancee was by my side. He was compassionate and invited us to attend The Divine Liturgy the following Sunday. It turned out to be one of the most richly satisfying and transcendant spiritual ex-
periences of my life.

The Byzantine Priest is wise not to push me into conversion. He is confident that the Holy Spirit will do one of two things. Either take me out of the RC Church for a season so that I may heal, only for me to return. Or, He may call me into the Byzantine Catholic Church. As for the wedding, I was told my fiancee and I may choose to be married at either the Cathedral or the Byzantine Church - depending on what happens in the year to come. Either way, it's a win/win situation because my Faith in God is intact!

I felt so burdened with the weight of this decision until Fr. Chris helped me to see the ultimate decision was really the Lord's. He has a
place and a plan for me. I need to discern His Will - which can be tricky when out emotions get involved!

I just want to add that I was NEVER disrespected by a RC Priest. As a matter of fact, I have only had positive experiences and the Priests I have known have been men of moral and spiritual integrity! But because of the incest - hearing about these cases - stirred up many feelings for me and created a "crisis of trust" for me.

So, Justin. Whatever your many reasons, Be Bold. I agree that it is better to embrace a Faith from a position of Belief, rather than to "flee" from one Church to another. However, if we are severely wounded, God, in His Mercy, can draw us out of a situation and bring us to an entirely new understanding of Himself! It is doubtful that I would have inquired about Eastern Catholicism if I had not sought refuge in the Byzantine Church. For now, I am trying to remember the scripture that admonishes us all to, "be still and know that I am God." What a challenge to us all.

My prayers are with you!

Kimberly Kateri

Dear Catholic Servant86:
Justin:
May you continue to seek God's Face throughout your conversion. Do not worry about what others may think about your decision to embrace Orthodoxy. You do not have to defend your journey - and it is a "process" - not a definitive moment online! Your decision is very much between you and your God. Others may inquire, and out of hospitality you may tell them your story. But do not let a charitable spirit ever prevent you from "telling the Truth" when it needs to be told. Especially when it comes to proclaiming Justice and Truth.

Case in point. My story. I'll be very brief. I was raised in a Protestant denomination - and a liberal one at that. I was also sexually abused by my maternal grandfather and my biological father. I was spiritually lost throughout most of my 20's but came to conversion after hearing about Medjugorje. I converted to Roman Catholicism in 1994 at the age of 30. I felt I had "come home" and never imagined I would ever leave.

When news of the sex abuse scandals among the Roman Catholic clergy and the conspiracy of the network of Catholic Bishops who tried to cover it up, broke - I was furious! Granted I am an incest survivor so this issue affects me perhaps more deeply than most. In any event, I was encouraged when Pope John Paul II made the public statement that, "there is no place in the Church for any Priest or Religious who harms a child." I was thankful that The Holy Father took a zero tolerance stance on this issue.

I waited for the American Conference of Bishops to follow his lead - but they compromised with a water-downed version of their original document.
I believe they have failed us morally!!! As leaders.

As a victim of sexual abuse, I was in a dilemma. I could no longer tithe to a Church or respect a body of Clergy that failed to protect the most innocent within its' Body.

To compound matters, I am engaged to be married and my fiancee and I have already booked a Roman Catholic Cathedral for next May!

I prayed - fasted - and prayed some more. I also cried alot. I was grieving the Church I had known and loved and been a part of for 8 years. But in the end, my conscience would not allow me to remain within the Roman Rite.

I still consider myself a "Catholic" in Faith and Theology but can no longer condone the actions taken - and not taken - by the hierarchy.

I met with a Byzantine Catholic Priest who warmly accepted me and listened to my story. My fiancee was by my side. He was compassionate and invited us to attend The Divine Liturgy the following Sunday. It turned out to be one of the most richly satisfying and transcendant spiritual ex-
periences of my life.

The Byzantine Priest is wise not to push me into conversion. He is confident that the Holy Spirit will do one of two things. Either take me out of the RC Church for a season so that I may heal, only for me to return. Or, He may call me into the Byzantine Catholic Church. As for the wedding, I was told my fiancee and I may choose to be married at either the Cathedral or the Byzantine Church - depending on what happens in the year to come. Either way, it's a win/win situation because my Faith in God is intact!

I felt so burdened with the weight of this decision until Fr. Chris helped me to see the ultimate decision was really the Lord's. He has a
place and a plan for me. I need to discern His Will - which can be tricky when out emotions get involved!

I just want to add that I was NEVER disrespected by a RC Priest. As a matter of fact, I have only had positive experiences and the Priests I have known have been men of moral and spiritual integrity! But because of the incest - hearing about these cases - stirred up many feelings for me and created a "crisis of trust" for me.

So, Justin. Whatever your many reasons, Be Bold. I agree that it is better to embrace a Faith from a position of Belief, rather than to "flee" from one Church to another. However, if we are severely wounded, God, in His Mercy, can draw us out of a situation and bring us to an entirely new understanding of Himself! It is doubtful that I would have inquired about Eastern Catholicism if I had not sought refuge in the Byzantine Church. For now, I am trying to remember the scripture that admonishes us all to, "be still and know that I am God." What a challenge to us all.

My prayers are with you!

Kimberly Kateri

Dear Kimberly,

God bless you. I can't imagine what you went through as a child and admire your courage and fortitude. The crisis in the Church has caused a lot of pain. God will show you the way through prayer.

Did you meet with Father Christopher Zugger? I know he is in NM. He is a good priest and has written a very interesting book documenting the persecution of Catholics in the Soviet Union entitled the Forgotten.

In Christ,
Anthony

Thank you Kimberly fo your prayers and your wonderful story, may God grant you many years! I tell you, I am not fleeing from the Church of my ancestors, I am simply becoming Orthodox to fulfill that which God has called me to do. I feel there are those who are called to Byzantine Churches in union with Rome, others are called to the Latin Rite and others are called to be Orthodox who do not feel Union with Rome is proper in the current situation, I am the latter. All are called to be saints, though in many different ways and different expressions of the same apostolic faith.

The only feelings of dissapointment I feel are really towards myself for allowing myself to be caught in the arrogance of the Catholic/Protestant squabbles. I feel called to the middle ground, the true heartland of reunion. As far as the sexual scandals are concerned, I am dissapointed with the lack of action, though I would hardly damn the church and run for that reason. I too have had only wonderful experiences with all the priests I have ever known.

All in all, becoming Orthodox would be a confirmation of what I have always believed since my liberation from my period of liberal theology and musleem theology about a year ago.

Peace be with you all!

-Justin, sinner

Dear Justin,

You can join the OCA or the Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox dioceses by profession of faith, confession, and communion, if you wish, under normal circumstances.

You might have to be a catechumen for awhile, which would be fine. My friend was recently received into the OCA after two months.

The Antiochians and Greeks will normally chrismate. Since you are Catholic, this is not exactly considered the same thing as a "rechrismation". The prayers are different, etc. Talk to several different Orthodox priests, first.

In Christ,

anastasios

anastasios, I do not think there are any OCA parishes nearby, so I would not be able to join.
I think I may go Antiochene at least for a while until I can get into OCA or Greek Orthodox, because I hear the Antiochenes are famous for a more liberal approach and the OCA is not recognized as canonical by some, though please correct me if I am wrong.

OCA is 100% canonical, just its status is disputed by Constantinople, which says it is still a metropolinate of the Russian Patriarchate.

anastasios

Conversion is NEVER a personal matter exclusively! The church is community. As is inferred in the gospels, we ARE our brother's keepers. We come to know the Master through the Body of Christ. We cannot attain an awareness or comprehension of He who Is individually. It is through the community of the faithful, partaking of one Eucharist and deified through Theosis that enables the beatific realization of WHO the Master is. I only say this in response to what someone else posted of your choice being a very personal decision. The Spirit as Isaiah recounts is heard in the whisper of the wind. Just as the wind cannot be contained, so neither, can the essence of the Spirit of God be contained fully in the heart of one man. The Spirit manifest itself through the Mystical Body of Christ through whom He was sent ("I will send another, the paraclete..."). Pray my friend pray, and do not pray alone, but consult your spiritual father to whom you are obliged to obedience. If you do not have one, I admonish you to hold off untill you are given one by the grace of God.

Peace to you,

Athanasius

The only one who has come close to being a spiritual father has been a n Orthodox man friendly with Rome (as I plan on being). So I feel like Orthodoxy is just my calling that I've had since the start by the grace of God.