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Originally posted by Jessup B.C. Deacon: Originally posted by Theist Gal:
[b] (ahem) Since no one has ever put forth any actual evidence that the late Cardinal Bugnini was a Freemason, and since he always denied it, and since he's no longer alive to defend himself, shouldn't we at least consider the possibility that maybe he wasn't?
And could we also please remember that, whatever flaws it may have, the so-called "Novus Ordo" is a legitimately promulgated rite of the Church and therefore ought to be treated with respect? (Some of us still like it.)
Dn. Robert [/b]I think Abp. Bugnini was the Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship when he was appointed ("exiled")as Pro-Nuncio to Iran. He was not promoted to Prefect of the Congregation. Amado
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Originally posted by Amadeus: Originally posted by Jessup B.C. Deacon: [b] Originally posted by Theist Gal:
[b] (ahem) Since no one has ever put forth any actual evidence that the late Cardinal Bugnini was a Freemason, and since he always denied it, and since he's no longer alive to defend himself, shouldn't we at least consider the possibility that maybe he wasn't?
And could we also please remember that, whatever flaws it may have, the so-called "Novus Ordo" is a legitimately promulgated rite of the Church and therefore ought to be treated with respect? (Some of us still like it.) Archbishop Anibale Bugnini was never made a Cardinal. He was removed as head of the Congregation for Divine Worship (I believe that's what it was called then) by Paul VI, and sent to Iran. This happened right when Casini was making his case (as per the writngs of Michael Davies). As to the Protestant advisers, Bugnini denied that also. The problem is, according to Davies, several of those Ministers came forward and confirmed that they had, in fact, been consultants to Bugnini. Bugnini, in his writings, boasted about bringing about a "revolution" in the Church (not a "reform"). Dn. Robert [/b]
He was not promoted to Prefect of the Congregation.
Amado [/b]You are probably right about that. Been a while since I read Davies on that issue. Dn. Robert
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Jessup B.C. Deacon Member
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Originally posted by theophan:
Deacon Robert:
So what was the follow-up to the incident with the child spitting out the Holy Gifts? And what was said to his mother?
We train our Extraordinary Ministers to chase people down to retrieve the Holy Gifts in my Latin Parish. I've personally taken the Host back from people who refuse to consume it and are leaving the church with It in their hands: simply chase them down. The scandal is in NOT doing this kind of dramatic thing. Our pastor has done the same thing and makes no bones about the fact that this IS THAT IMPORTANT.
How about the mother? Showing such disrespect for the Eucharist is supposed to get one an automatic excommunication--and unless I'm mistaken it's reserved to the Pope to lift it.
In Christ,
BOB Dear Bob, I misspoke. Actually, my wife, who is Protestant, witnessed this event. I was told, as was the priest, a few days afterward.It was in the back of a crowded church. It was about two years ago. I think I remember her saying she, a Protestant!, had spoken to the mother. Now you have me racking my brain! I know the issue was resolved. In order to resolve this in my own mind, I will ask her what exactly happened. Dn. Robert
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Thank you Pani Rose and Neil! These sites are excellent! God Bless you both! - Gv 
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I am sorry - somehow this posted on the wrong thread.
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Originally posted by theophan:
I've personally taken the Host back from people who refuse to consume it and are leaving the church with It in their hands: simply chase them down. The scandal is in NOT doing this kind of dramatic thing. [/QB] The scandal is that people are walking around with the Eucharist in their hands in the first place.
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OrthoDixieBoy Member
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Originally posted by AthanasiusOblSB: Originally posted by theophan:
I've personally taken the Host back from people who refuse to consume it and are leaving the church with It in their hands: simply chase them down. The scandal is in NOT doing this kind of dramatic thing. Hmmm Do you suppose that at the Last Supper Jesus went around to each apostle and placed the host on his tongue?
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Hmmm Do you suppose that at the Last Supper Jesus went around to each apostle and placed the host on his tongue? yes
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If my double nickel mind is functioning correctly the Host is to be consumed on receiption(in the hand) :rolleyes: in front of the Priest/EMHC...that is not moving to the side etc...
Thought this thread was about the new indult and not pecularities of communion...
Let's get back on topic...
PAX
james
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Communion in the hand is shameful and sacreligious, IMHO, but I'm pretty sure the early Christians did it, nonetheless.
Sacramental and Mysteriological theology has progressed since the first century, A.D. however, and we know that it is wrong to handle Our Lord in such a casual manner.
Not to get technical (but hey, I am a Roman Catholic!), but parts of the Host easily fall to the ground where It is tramped upon. This is why I find the paten so necessary in the Roman Rite, and why C.I.T.H. should be discouraged.
Logos Teen
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It would be well to remember that so far nothing whatever has happened. Best to withhold speculation and comments until a document is promulgated.
Fr. Serge
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Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos:
Communion in the hand is shameful and sacreligious, IMHO, but I'm pretty sure the early Christians did it, nonetheless.
Logos Teen Garrett, Not only was it practiced in the early church, but still continues today as a practice in certain Eastern Churches that use the the Divine Liturgy of Saint James. There is even a Byzantine form of this Liturgy and it is done on at least one or two occasions a year, and the rubrics call for the laity to recieve communion in hand. So according to your premise, these Christians that recieve according the prescribed liturgical rubrics are committing sacrilege. In IC XC, Father Anthony+
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos:
Sacramental and Mysteriological theology has progressed since the first century, A.D. however, and we know that it is wrong to handle Our Lord in such a casual manner. Perhaps in our "progress" we have developed a bit of a superiority complex and have replaced the simplicity of the gospel with "what seems right in our own eyes". Jason
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Fr. Anthony, barekmor,
Which Churches celebrating the Holy Liturgy of St. James do communion-in-hand, and what is the theology being expressed in the Byzantine celebration?
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Originally posted by AthanasiusOblSB: Originally posted by theophan:
I've personally taken the Host back from people who refuse to consume it and are leaving the church with It in their hands: simply chase them down. The scandal is in NOT doing this kind of dramatic thing. EXACTLY !!!
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