www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Latin Rite, Facing East re: Liturgy of the Eucharist

My dear Eastern brethern,

I am experiencing some anguish and problems with certain aspects in my parish, especially during the Liturgy of the Eucharist, which currently in the Latin Rite occurs with the priest facing the people and not facing east.

My main problem is this does not direct the Liturgy towards God the Father, but to the people, which is becoming a stumbling block to me.

I am curious on what my Eastern brethern's opinions are.

Pokoj,
james

Dear Jakub,

My opinion, and it is only that, is that you should become Eastern Catholic!

Alex

I don't think Latins have been concerned with what direction they face during mass for many years. Facing east is a tradition lost in the Latin Church.

Dear Charles,

You are more than correct, Sir!

I remember being in a Cistercian monastery with altars in smaller chapels that surrounded the main altar all around.

Then there is the Stations of the Cross devotion that would require facing any direction BUT East.

Alex

I couldn't agree more. Facing the people during mass is more than loosing a symbol. It is introducing a total new meaning to the liturgy. I guess they tried to enforce the aspect of the communio in christ but I am not sure. And as a side note. As parishiner now being forced to watch the various mimics (appropiate or not appropriate doesn't matter) the priest is doing during the service at the altar is very distracting.

In 'Spirit of the Liturgy' Benedict XVI expressed his agreement with all of you. Buy the book Jakub its beautiful, absolutely beautiful...its given new meaning to the Roman rite for me. I didnt realise there was so much behind our native traditions. Benedict XVI is an amazing scholar, amazing...

I imagine there will be a shift, but it may not happen immediately. As you mention, Pope Benedict is for it, at least for the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I'd recommend also reading U.M. Lang's book "Turning Toward the Lord: Orientation in Liturgical Prayer" published by Ignatius Press.

A good and worthwhile read on the topic. When the then Cardinal Ratzinger wrote the foreward it seemed he was in favor of an eastern orientation in eucharistic prayer.

To give a little history on the problem.
It has been the continuous tradition in the Latin Rite, for 1965 years, to face the east. While the 2nd Vatican Council itself never mentioned the change, and indeed stressed the need for continuity, after the council Pope Paul VI succumbed to the pressure of Annibale Bugnini, the framer of the Novus Ordo Mass, and allowed for Mass "ad populum". In a disturbing twist of events, this allowance turned into a positive, unwritten law. One can still find priests who say the Mass "ad orientem" in the Novus Ordo clergy, but they are ostrasized and treated as heretics.

After perusing Bugnini's writings, I found he has an extremely strange understanding of liturgical development, and it was his explicit goal in the Novus Ordo to eliminate all "stumbling blocks" in the Latin liturgy to Protestants. Hence, Mass facing the people was introduced.

I can suggest a few things. Find a Novus Ordo priest who faces God. They ARE out there! Or simply attend Tridentine Mass, where all the traditions of the liturgy are safeguarded, including "Missa ad orientem". Or, as Orthodox Catholic suggested, simply go East yourself!!!

I think this goes back a bit before 1965, being well aware of the changes that took place in the Novus Ordo. The Latin Church where I am organist was built in 1926 and the high altar faces west. The priest now says mass facing east and the people, but the fact that it is east is coincidence. The building fronts on the street on its eastern side, so I think the property layout dictated the position of the high altar. An earlier church in town built around 1870 or so has the high altar facing south. If facing east was a definite rule, it wasn't being followed well before the Novus Ordo came along. I remember the argument that if we just made the mass more acceptable to the Protestants, they would become Catholic. It was nonsense, of course, since I suspect we lost more people to the Protestants than they did to us.

That may or may not be so. After all as Benedict XVI points out in 'Spirit of the Liturgy' the altar at St Peter's Basilica also faces west. If I read him correctly what would happen is that the congregation would turn and face away from the priest and look east as well. Maybe it was Fr Joseph Fessio I was reading but I'm pretty sure it was Papa Ratzi.

Well, figure this one out. In 1942 Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York (the "new" cathedral on 5th avenue- it's only a hundred or so years old) installed the permanent high altar. AT the time, much was made of the remarkable feature that one could celebrate Mass at this altar facing either East or West - which is quite true; one could. But the moment "Mass facing the people" became the Post Vatican II style, they abandoned the High Altar anyway - even though it would have required nothing in particular to use it facing in that direction. So far as I know, the High Altar is only used nowadays for the occasional Tridentine Mass.

Incognitus

This fueled speculation that Benedict XVI might bring back the Tridentine Mass. Would there be a possibility at it?

Most high altars in churches, especially in Cathedrals, could be used to face East or West.

I attended a NO Mass one time. The celebrating priest, remarking about the changes in the Mass since Vat II, remarked that "before VatII we worshiped Christ, but now we worship each other".
Perfect.

I wonder if he was being sarcastic, or trying to make a rhetorical point in a homily? I've attended hundreds of "NO Masses" and never heard a priest say anything remotely like that.