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There are, it appears, 9 Orthodox jurisdictions in SCOBA. If they were to unite jurisdictionally tomorrow, would Metropolitan Herman be the Metropolitan over all the hierarchs.

Also, as someone who is not Eastern, I am wondering why they are not united as a single American entity. What is the hold up?

Marshall,

Just like the BCs, ethnic and historical differences.

And, until the Russian revolution the Orthodox in this country were under Russian jurisdiction, after that things fell apart.

Tony

Nope! Archbishop Demetrios would become the Primate of the new American Orthodox Church (unless he chose to defer to a younger bishop, who would also probably be from the Greek Archdiocese).
For the unity of the Holy Churches of God, let us pray to the Lord.
Kyrie Eleison! Lord Have Mercy!
Three Cents

Why can't they ALL just join the OCA???

Metropolitan + Laurus would be the Metropolitan for the US. Since the Russian Church Abroad was the first to bring Orthodoxy here. Thats what I have been told any way. That would be awesome.

In Christ
Nektarios

Then you haven't been told the thruth, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad didn't even exist at the time Orthodoxy came to the American continent, the first Orthodox mission in America was under the jurisdiction of the Russian Orthodox Church-MOSCOW PATRIARCHATE.

That both the ROCOR and the OCA claims to be the legitimate heirs of this mission is another issue...

Christian

Give it to the Bulgarians...


...and the rakia is on me!

Anton

Unfortunately,it seems that the prospects of administrative union of the Orthodox churches is very far on the horizon...most priests do not foresee it in my generation, nor are interjurisdictional meetings of clergy hoping for this, very high on the priority and enthusiasm list these days.

Though--administrative unity did come close at the meeting of Orthodox bishops at Ligonier, Pa. about ten years ago. The strong leadership of (then) Archbishop Iakovos was very instrumental in this...however, that meant breaking from the Ecumenical Patriarch, and when he got wind of it, Archbishop Iakovos soon announced his retirement.

The jurisdiction which seems to be pushing for this the most is the Antiochian Orthodox Church, having been granted a form of autonomy from the Patriarch of Antioch recently...

I wonder where the OCA stands in the hope of unity of SCOBA churches? BRIAN??? FATHER THOMAS???

In Christ,
Alice

Seeing how most of Orthodoxy believes that the OCA's autocephaly is fake, I dont believe that the OCA would be in a good position.

Yes I know that the ROCA didnt exist in its current form, it was under the moscow patriarchate, although since the MP and ROCOR are
Coming into communion with each other ROCOR will be under the MP. So techinacly ROCOR would be "given the US" since ROCOR would be under the MP. ROCOR is demanding of the MP that they keep there Autunomus Status.

In Christ
Nektarios

Dear Nektarios,

The Standing Conference of Orthodox Bishops in America does not think that the OCA is fake.

I have the utmost respect for the Orthodox Church in America. They hold dear the awesome spirituality and religious adherence and fervor of Russia, yet do not espouse the judgemental fanaticism of other Russian churches in this country. They embrace old and new in the most ideal way I have seen...neither going overboard to liberalism and modernism as some in the GOA and AOCA have at times...yet, they have not gone the ultra traditionalist fundamentalist route either.

Blessings to you!
Alice

The discussion is tiresome.

When we are busy feeding the hungry, caring for the indigent, providing housing for the homeless and the immigrants amongst us, maintaining the spectacular temples and monasteries that we will have built here, when we have television and other programming to enlighten the unenlightened, when we have begun to seriously live out the Gospel; then....then someone will ask us, "Who is your leader?"

At that time we will be ready.

When God calls us to judgement, he won't ask us which jurisdiction we had belonged to while we were alive. Do the work and He will provide.

In Christ,
Andrew

The Church of Greece, doestn recognize the OCA autocephlous status. I believe all of the patriarchal sees dont except for Moscow.

In Christ
Nektarios

"Ultra Traditionalist fundementalist?"

Actually you are wrong. I believe only the Greek-origin Churches and their dependents (e.d. Finland) do not recognise the autocephalousy(?) of the OCA. All others do so -- the Georgians, the Bulgarians as well as the Russians recognise it and also teh Czech/Slovaks, Poles as well. Now as to the Church of Japan, I have no idea...

Anton

It's a mess, it's quite uncanonical, there is no prospect for a solution any time soon. I'm not talking about OCA, but about the state of Orthodoxy in the USA. It fell apart because of the Bolshevik seizure of power in the former Russian empire, and the subsequent persecution and exploitation of the Russian Orthodox Church. While the bishops in America were Russians, only a small percentage of their parishioners were. Ethnic Russian emigration from Russia was small, and probably most of them were sectarians of one sort or another. The Greeks would have easily dominated, had it not been for extensive immigration from the Austro-Hungarian Empire between about 1880 and the First World War. While these immigrants were Greek Catholices (the Orthodox Church having been suppressed during the 18th century), the churlish reception they got from the Latin hierarchy induced many to resort to the (Russian) Orthodox bishops, and some among them to adopt a (rather artificial) ethnic Russian identity. These people were already used to the enmity of Polish and Hungarian bishops, and did not want to fight for their religious culture in a new country where they were more vulnerable thn in the staryj kraj.

Most of those of other non-Russian nationalities did not want to remain under Russian bishops with the Russian church in turmoil and confusion, and sought and got bishops of their own nationality (quite in violation of canon law). And the Russians themselves split into three rival jurisdictions. Who would head a theoretical reunited American Orthodoxy? That is one of the problems among the obstacles to reunion. So we muddle along as best we can. Fortunately, the jurisdictional tohu-bohu does not fatally impair the spiritual life of the Church. We would like our circumstances to be canonical and not complicated by this jurisdictional mess, but we are very grateful for what we have. I have just returned from a visit to an infant mission parish--services will commence later this month--with great optimism. It's in another jurisdiction, and it made no difference at all to any of us.

Stephen

Slava Isusu Christu!

The OCA is *the* Orthodox Jurisdiction that has true canonical claim to North and South America. For people who think that ROCOR existed before the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Metropolia (now known as the OCA) they need to talk to Vladyka Nikolai of the Russian Orthodox Diocese of Alaska (OCA). I would love to find out if you would still have a backbone after such an encounter However, if ROCOR re-unites with the MP, ROCOR will have to end up being a autonomous-diasphora particular Church of the MP. The MP has given the OCA a primacy of jurisdiction,i.e. autocephaly, in the Americas. Can we all say: duh :rolleyes:

In SS. Josaphat and Alexis of Wilkes-Barre,


Robert-the-Uniate

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